Feeling Stuck Part 7 (FULL. PLEASE POST IN PART 8)


Betrayed Wives Club is a safe place to share your story, gain support, offer your hard-won wisdom and enjoy the sisterhood.

205 comments:

  1. So here goes, this is my story. He had a sexual affair 6 years ago. our relationship wasn't good I was working full time and studying for a Masters degree. He felt neglected and reached out on the internet for friendship. An ex-girlfriend got in touch with him and it grew from there. The affair lasted 6 months. I found out and for a couple of months he was leaving to be with her but then one day we had an almighty row and he decided to re-commit to our marriage. We patched things over and seemed to be bumping along ok until this year, he became moody and angry and then I found out he is having an online affair with an American woman. We are in the UK.
    He says he wants to stay that he loves me but three months on he is still in contact with her and this time won't share passwords for his computer or phone. We tried counselling but he gave up after 3 sessions as he said it was too painful. Counsellor was trying to get to the bottom of why he thinks it is OK to cheat and bringing up his past issues with his cheating father and his own mental health issues.
    I feel stuck and unable to walk away as I still love him.
    What do I do?

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    1. Dear fellow Brit,

      Get a free half hour with a family law firm, more than one if uncertain who would be best. Find out what your rights are and if this is new to you and you are not actually a lawyer yourself, what the process of divorce would look like. Doing this makes these huge decisions less frightening. You don't have to start proceedings. Make it clear to your husband that you will not tolerate him staying in contact with this third party and that if he wants to stay married he must be prepared to share his passwords with you and recommit to your marriage. Sadly there's no guarantee that he won't take his behaviour further underground, but you will have stated your position. He should know that you're prepared to move on if he continues to disrespect you. If you're able to, explain this calmly and without getting angry or upset. I know this is hard but it makes things easier for him to hear and understand and is less exhausting for you. Realising that you're prepared to walk away may well wake him up to the reality he's created.

      You can do better than 'bumping along ok', frankly. Not worth staying around to return to that. Look at what YOU want, at who you want to be. Make a mental inventory of your skills and successes and all the things your family and friends love about you (I know, we don't do this) and award yourself your full attention.

      Hard to have couples counselling at this stage. Your counsellor sounds good but maybe better if he sees someone individually. I think you'd do well to insist on this, however painful he finds it. You too. You will need to know the full extent of his activities (better for him to be honest, trickle truth is so destructive). Recovery after these blows takes real courage. I hope he realises what a gift you're giving him even considering it.

      'our relationship wasn't good I was working full time and studying for a Masters degree.' You sound amazing! This is not a reason for a relationship to be 'bad'. Your husband's selfishness was the cause of his affair. Do not take responsibility for his poor choices. His choice now can be to work on himself, whatever happens between the two of you, to face his demons. You sound like a compassionate person and this doesn't have to change; sometimes the gentlest souls have to be encouraged to protect themselves and ask others to make the difficult journey they would rather avoid. This did not happen six years ago, and no one would blame you if you decide in the end to cut your losses.

      Good luck x

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    2. Wow Iris. You have such a way of putting things succinctly. With your permission, I'd like to rework this post as a sort of "betrayal 101" list. Would that be okay?
      Anonymous, Iris has laid it out for you in the simplest possible terms. You cannot have a marriage with three people. If he won't give her up, then he's telling you that she matters more than you do (or that his head is up his ass, which is pretty much the same thing). See a lawyer to, as Iris says, get clear on what that would look like should you decide to pursue it. And insist that he get therapy and provide total transparency to you. His refusal or foot-dragging means that you need to protect yourself first and foremost. I'm so sorry -- we all know how devastating this is. But he needs to be kicked off the fence because he's not climbing down on his own.

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    3. Iris thanks so much for your advice. It mirrors what my counsellor says I have seen a lawyer and know where I stand. Basically I'm shafted. I earn more than he does and I have a bigger pension pot so he gets half of it all. that doesn't make it any easier. I might end up paying him maintenance too.
      It crap whichever way you look at it.

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    4. Bugger.

      I sincerely hope you don't end up paying him maintenance. Maybe see another lawyer. Can't help the situation re assets . Perhaps you could view him as a failed investment. Why did your marriage end? Oh, my partner sat around all day eating cake. Lots of cake. A cat would have been more helpful.

      If it helps at all (and he may surprise you) I have a close friend who was married for 27 years to a serial cake-eater. Because they had children she carried on until he got to the stage where he was not only doing this openly, he was telling her to accept the way he was since it had clearly suited her in the past. She threw him out. It has taken her years of separation to divorce him because he was arguing over assets; only by planning a wedding to a lovely (widowed) man she met on match.com did she manage to force him into a courtroom. It ended with her comforting her lawyer who had fought for her so long and got nowhere. 'Let it go,' she could have sung, 'I didn't need half the business and his bloody boat anyway,'

      Of course the moral is that she is now very happy and prosperous and her ex husband is still miserable.

      It is crap now, but this is just a step away from what's next. Good luck.

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  2. Hi its Polly here. I just need a hug from you all as I am so distraught.
    Things have been lovely for a while me and H have been happy he even bought me a lovely ring and put it on my wedding finger. I had not thought about OW for ages and I falsely believed things were getting better.
    Then today I received an e-mail from H but not on his own e-mail address but on the one he secretly had that was his name and her name forever.com
    I was so upset to see her name once again linked to his that I simply asked him very quietly why his e-mail came from his secret forever address and all hell erupted he scremed and shouted at me told me I am a thick stupid brainless bimbo to bring that up. I quietly said I hadn't IT had bought it to me and he lost control said the most awful things to me and told me that he cannot stand being stuck with such an idiot.
    I do not understand what I did wrong all I needed was an explanation now I am in floods of tears and deep despair.
    Will I ever get things right? why do I upset him so easily,? why if he loves me as he says does he be so angry and cruel with the things he says?. He threw all the reasons at me why I made him turn to OW telling me once again I deserved all I got.!
    I expect it will all blow over again but right now I need a friend and a hug
    Love to you all

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    1. Polly, I wish I could hug you and assure you over and over and over that you do not deserve any of this. Polly, what he is doing to you is abuse. There's no way around it. It is cruel and damaging and I suspect you've been listening to it for so many years that you can't even hear how cruel and demeaning and WRONG it is. You did nothing -- ABSOLUTELY NOTHING -- to deserve being spoken to like that. You asked a legitimate question. He uses his anger to control you. To get you to back down. To shut you up. That is not a marriage. That is a dictatorship. Polly, please seek a counsellor to help you through this. Nobody should ever have to listen to words like that but certainly not from the person who promised to love and cherish you. You did nothing wrong. You asked a question. The same question that any one of us would have asked (and I suspect we wouldn't have been calm or quiet when we asked). Sweetheart, you are in an abusive relationship. You don't deserve this. You deserve support and kindness and compassion. You deserve honesty. You deserve to have your questions answered. You are NOT an idiot. You are a thoughtful, loyal, warm-hearted woman worthy of love and respect. Please...love and respect yourself enough to speak to someone who deals with abuse. Call a hotline. Call a therapist. Just call. Right now, just call.
      Oh Polly...how I wish I could hug you.

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  3. Polly, I am no expert and its up to you if you want to stay with this man however, if my husband wasn't completely sorry for what he did and tried to throw the blame at me, I would be telling him it was over. His affair now only broke you down but he is still breaking you down. If he still has an email address that has her name on it, he has not been able to let her go-in his mind at least and that should be one of the boundaries that you set. Anyone who is degrading you with the names and things he is saying to you is not worth your love or time. Without the infidelity, they are inexcusable things to say to someone, with infidelity in the mix, absolutely should be a deal breaker. You are worth so much more than what he is giving you in this relationship. How he is treating you is abuse and I don't want to tell you what you should be doing about your relationship with him but you need to start to take care of yourself and his verbal abuse is not helping you. I feel horrible for you and wish I were there to give him my two cents worth on your behalf. He is a disgraceful human being in my opinion and you don't deserve to be treated that way. Lots of hugs

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  4. Tough Love coming at you with that Hug, ok?

    Let me quote you Polly: "why do I upset him so easily,?" Why? Because he is a big baby. Sorry but his name and her name "forever" as an e-mail address? What is he 12?
    He sends YOU a letter by mistake from HIS secret e-mail and it's YOUR fault??
    NO it's NOT.
    I can tell you all the things he should do as in
    delete that address, stop blaming YOU, stop calling you an idiot.
    and you Polly, you should somehow leave his sorry ass
    everything everyone else has told you is right..

    He is NOT a good man and you should NOT be with him. Rarely do I feel so cut and dry about something but this has gone on for HOW long? It's not the first and it wont be the last.
    Lizzie is right, Elle is right.
    and I add AGAIN you did nothing to "make him turn to the OW" OK?
    Nothing. That is his poor choice again and again and again.

    Don't believe him when he calls you an idiot. *show* him you are NOT.

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  5. Hi its Polly again
    Thank you for your words, not always a comfort but non the less very sincere and true. I thank you from the bottom of my heart for caring as at the moment I am very low and depressed.
    I know you tell me the truth and I only have you lot that I can speak the total truth too. I hide everything from every one. Only my old 86 year old mother sees through my smile. I have very large dark brown eyes and my mother can read them like a book .
    I cannot upset her with the truth because she adores my H as he is very good to her.
    After D day which was very public and most of my family found out as I did my mother forgave him straight away saying it must have been OW to blame. For the following 5 months he carried on with his affair saying he had to let her down carefully as he could ruin her life. She wanted his baby and to marry him he said despite the 20 year age gap and that he lied to her every day never even telling her he had a vasectomy 35 years ago !!!
    I can see that he is not always a good man, I can see that he is cruel and often nasty. The trouble is we have been side by side for 50 years and before him I had the most abusive father ever.
    I suppose I know nothing but men of this type and I am stupid enough to love them both.
    Twice I have tried and intended to end my life and trust me it was NOT a cry for help it was a cry for peace and escape from this unhappiness.
    Yet still I looked over the room at him whilst I write this and my heart ached for him as I cannot help but love him with all my heart and I said a silent prayer "please God make him love me as much as I love him"
    I listen to you and know you tell me the truth I know all you say is right. What I cannot control is my heart. His treatment of me for those first 5 months made me lose 3 stone and all my hair fell out, I had two breakdowns and two failed suicide attempts on the last one he screamed at me that he hated me for leaving him as he could never leave me !!!!! I truly think that he has mental issues and depression himself.
    Once again thank you for listening to me. I promised to be with him in sickness and in health in 1967 I shall never break my wedding vows even though he has. Forgive me please for being so weak but my heart is steadfast and true. I must keep my chin up as best I can and you all help me do that. H tells me often and always has that I am the sweetest woman he has ever met. Maybe he enjoyed the thrill of a manipulative predatory bitch (his words) All I can stand witness too is I am who I am and love him faults an all till I take my last breath.
    Love peace and happiness to you all

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    1. Polly,
      You are not weak at all. You've shown incredible strength and integrity. But I fear you assessment is right -- that you've only known abusive men and so, on some level, this feels normal to you. Your mother's response to your husband's cheating reveals that she, too, accepts bad behaviour without expectation of remorse or repentance.
      I hope you can see, however, that wanting to die is not a more acceptable way to end a marriage than leaving. I suspect your husband does have mental health issues. But unless he's willing to get help, you're the one dodging the emotional blows.
      At the least, please find yourself a counsellor who can help you build yourself up and heal yourself from all this. No matter how he chooses to live his life, you don't have to live your own feeling lonely and anxious.
      I'm so glad you found all of us. We're in your corner.

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    2. Thank you Elle, I have seen more counsellors than anyone I know. two helped me tremendously the others I dismiss as not even professional though they were. One even left me feeling worse.
      I am speaking to a relate counsellor at present but truth told I am tired, tired of talking and hearing the same questions over and over again "How did that make you fee?"
      All I want and need is peace in my head. I just want to forget everything and be happy once again.
      I thought I had broken through then yesterday happened so all I can do is hang in there and hope for the best.
      This betrayal lark is pure devastation but we can get through it . I believe you when you said that Thanks for listening POLLY

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    3. Polly, I absolutely believe it's possible to get through the devastation of infidelity -- but I always include the proviso that it includes a remorseful spouse taking full ownership of his cheating and with a deep commitment to doing whatever it takes to earn back your trust and to deserve the second chance he's getting.
      I don't blame you for wanting peace in your head. I'm sure there's a lot of darkness and pain there from all you're going through. And I understand the desire to "forget everything and be happy again". My fear, however, is that those who don't rebuild their marriages based on trust and a renewed commitment to honesty and respect are doomed to simply repeat the same painful mistakes.
      Polly, I completely respect your choice to handle this however you want to. But I want to impress upon you that this is a CHOICE for you to make. At this point, I sincerely hope that you will choose YOU. That your loyalty will be to yourself and that you will be guided by a sense that you deserve love and kindness and respect, if not from him at least from yourself. It's time to break the cycle of abuse. And if not by you, then who?

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    4. Polly, my first husband was abusive both mentally and physically. When I read your letter you sound like a long term abused wife. You admit that he is abusive but you look over at him with love. This is a classic statement from an abused wife. I said it myself before and after being called a whore, one black eye and red strangulation marks around my neck but I loved him too. You are so accustom to abuse but that doesn't make it right and you can get so beaten down it is hard to see clearly anything. Your mother loves your husband but allowed your father to abuse you? See the contradiction? I understand about devotion to mothers but not when it endangers my well being. You sound beaten down, like a dog that remains chained up in a back yard not free just there. You need to get away from your husband and if your mother loves you she will support you. What mother wants to see her daughter abused? I know there is always hope of healing in any circumstances but I have been there done that abuse red bells, alarms, sirens going off for you in your situation. i don't know that I could handle infidelity from a long term abuser. There is much for you to sort out. There is underlying strength if you have gotten through all this so far by yourself without much support. What mother immediately forgives someone who hurt you? Your mind is not clear now from too many traumas but get out of there and get help. If your mother loves your husband so much let him worry about her for awhile. I'm really worried about you so do what you need to do to feel safe.

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  6. Polly I wish my response sounded as kind as Elle's. I truly want the best for you. I want you to be happy again. Not just remembering it or trying to find it but really living it. If you stay with your H he has got to help you not blame you. If you go, it won't be an easy road to happy but he would hopefully not have the power to drag you down. I just want you to not just feel fleetingly happy. But actually be happy. No matter what you do, do, as Elle says and choose. you

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  7. Steam you always talk such sense, maybe not in the same way as Elle but from the heart I am sure.
    Every counsellor I have spoken too says as you do, I KNOW it is the right advice but Steam from the day I was born I have been in this same plight.
    I hate to sound dramatic but it is simply true.
    I am a none person only lived for my family NEVER for myself. I was told what to do by my father and cooked meals for our large family from the age of 12. I did everything I was ever told cooked cleaned and babysat. I had NO life at all until I met H and I did fall in love with him even though I was only 16.
    The trouble is one of my sons told me harshly a few years ago that it was my own fault my H was the way he is because I am just subservient and say nothing so in his words I had "formed a monster" Trouble is that he is very much the same as his father so I expect it is right what he says.
    My husband is fond of saying angrily to me "The weak shall inherit the earth ok when every other F****r has finished with it" My father used to say something similar "Stop standing with you finger up you A**e you look a fool" I never did have my finger up my bum it was his crude way of telling me I was ineffective and stood back.
    How at age 66 how do I change myself? I just want to be with those I love. I simply do not ever gain respect because I never rock any boat I take everything on the chin and carry on. I make love whereas OW bruised and fought him in bed treated him mean and he was determined to master her and turn her too into me. The sad thing is she did try, I bird watch so she did too, I love cooking so she did too. I am a natural Buddhist she became one too. Only she had a temper and tried to manipulate him back and at first it thrilled him, the challenge I expect. Now he goes off on a tantrum if I mention anything to do with OW like that childishly stupid e-mail address but in full fight mode he screamed "I hate her stop mentioning her, I cannot live with it, let it go !!!!!
    I know things are complicated and I am so pleased to talk to you honestly about it all your all a life line. thank you Polly

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  8. Dear Polly.

    The reality is I am much more mad at your husband than I am at you. I gave you a piece of my mind as I had no way to give it to him.

    It is SO hard to change, It's so cliché, but it is so true.

    I let so many things slide with my H for sooo long that I was distant enough to make it easy to deceive me. That didn't give him the right to do it, but he did and I didn't ask questions, for fear too, of rocking the boat.

    My father was an alcoholic and my mother would goad him into drinking when he was sober. Mind you, it was his choice to take the drink, but after a while of being sober my mother would buy him a bottle for his birthday, Christmas, whatever, and claim you "can't deny a man a drink" Ugh. Different times for sure.

    When he was drunk she berated him for drinking.

    I made a concerted effort to do neither of these--I just ignored my H when he was drunk and I left him alone when he was sober....I left so much space between the two of us, but I am not the one who made him drink or made him cheat.

    Changing yourself is HARD. Changing another person is impossible.

    So I had to work on me--and together we worked on the relationships, but it was my H's job to work on himself and he did and continues to.

    Staying very involved in his interests is difficult for me at times, but he is excited about them so I try to stay engaged. Urge him on, thank him for all the things he does for me and not take anything for granted.

    I don't know what I am trying to say, but I understand the dynamic of living in a dysfunctional family and trying to change when you leave one house for another. It's not easy at all. Yet I bet you can do it. Hugs to you.

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  9. Polly,
    I grew up as an abused child, too and at the age of 66 I'm fighting to change myself. I saw my grandfather verbally abuse my grandma and my mother, too. That's how my mother ended up staying in domestic violence for 12 yrs. when I got married, I carried on the patterns that I had witnessed. Didn't rock the boat, always tried to do what was expected until the two affairs with flight attendants. Then I began to reach down deep inside and find my voice. You can, too but it isn't easy. There is no way another person can decide this for you but one day when you get sick of being treated like a dog, you can yell to the SOB to shut the f***k up and see what happens. At our age, the quality of life matters. Who knows how many yrs we get? And I read that you did try to escape the pain thru suicide. Remember that know one is worth dying. For my children, I wanted to end the cycle of abuse that I saw but it takes generations to do it. Are you doing your part to end it for those who come after you???

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  10. Sister Polly, I am 62, married 43-years, been in therapy for 18-months following D-day. I made the decision to stay in the marriage. My therapist continues to work with me giving me advice on how to verbally respond when my husband slips into his old pattern of anger/verbal abuse. No one has to take that crap. Learn how to stand up, without fear, and be strong regardless of the scary setup. Like my husband, I believe your husband is angry over HIS choices in life. Instead of taking personal responsibility, it is much easier to project the anger and place blame on you. My 82-year old mom reminded me '...life is short. Choose to be happy.' The tough thing about being in our age group is our entire life has been with the asshole to whom we are married. I don't want to start over with another asshole, new problems, etc. He's an asshole but he's my asshole. It doesn't mean I will EVER put up with the mental and verbal abuse again. Via therapy, I have found me, my voice, and my boundary's. .Being in our 60's is not too late to find your inner warrior.

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    1. I thank you all for always being there on the end of a message, it really is a lifeline.
      I wanted to tell you all what has been happening in my life as to be honest there is no wonder I am confused.
      My H came home from his work as lecturer two nights ago. He is at the end of this academic year and he was so pleased that 100% of this years students passed (to become counsellors (he is senior lecturer training others and also a practicing counsellor himself) He was over the moon because it had been graduation day and it had gone SO well he talked and talked even took me out for a meal whilst he relived his wonderful graduation ceremony and how many thanks and gifts he had been given all his thank you cards said "Brilliant lecturer£ "Awesome" "The best" I was happy for him because he is so happy up there on his pedestal .Those that know my story will know OW was a 40 year old student of his (he is 69) We came home and he was still on cloud 9 then I was asked to get him a drink and when I returned 2 minutes later he was texting so I quietly asked "Who are you texting?" Well the atomic bomb went up and knowing his bad temper I went silent. I thought you would all like to hear a professional's opinion on "Total transparency"
      He was FURIOUS I had dared to ask, so I said "I thought we were being honest and transparent" HE told me this VERY angrily.
      "Whoever tells you total transparency is right is very wrong ! it is both insulting and an infringement of human rights, every person is free to choose and maybe I made a bad choice, but you made a choice to stay with me. I do not think any of you understand how controlling you are being. I have stayed with you, love you and want this marriage to work BUT I will NOT be watched and questioned, I refuse to be either controlled because of your insecurities and watched because of your paranoia. Every human should be able to do what they want not put into a jail cell guarded and watched. It is intolerable that people think it is OK. I will be a free man as I should be and if you cannot trust me when I tell you I am not doing anything wrong. It says more about you than me."
      All this was shouted at me as usual but I get confused and upset because he is a highly trained psychologist. I would like to explain that I am far from stupid being a lecturer before he was but "Only in art" (his words) not an academic really so I am unable to grasp the meaning of infringing human rights.
      I wonder what you make of that conversation !!! as usual I sobbed for hours ,I am so silly because he makes a kind of sense but it feels so uncaring and harsh.
      I hope you are all Ok with your lives and feel some peace and happiness right now love and hugs Polly

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    2. Dear Polly
      It feels crazy-making doesn't it when you think you have your 'rights' and 'wrongs' sorted, and then they give you a well-reasoned argument that turns everything upside down. Our internal dialogue says "well, that makes sense, maybe I'm not as clever as him, that's why he needed to point it out to me..."
      And you know what Polly? His argument would make complete sense if he had not already proven himself to be untrustworthy. That is where everything he says falls down. It all very well for him to talk about transparency being insulting and an infringement on human rights (give me strength), but this is a marriage. We're not talking about espionage or acts of interrogation.
      That being said, I have to wonder if his reaction is based upon the premise of attack-being -the-best-form-of-defence?
      What does your gut tell you? Is there a possibility that he has something to hide? I know this is probably too painful to even contemplate, but I felt it worth asking.
      Polly, you are a compassionate, empathetic, clever, articulate and loving lady. I have no doubt that you have kind eyes and give the best hugs too.
      Please, please, please give yourself some of that love.
      The words that come out of his mouth in anger are not your truth. They speak to how his mind and heart currently work. He may be a highly trained psychologist, but that does not preclude him from having human failings - in fact it maybe the very thing that feeds his ego, that gives him permission to treat you and speak to you this way.
      I send you love, (((((hugs))))) and fairydust.

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    3. I was smiling as I read your message "Fairydust" because I have always been about fairies from being small and truly believing I could fly, I have had fairydust in my life forever. it is part of me. I love the idea that one day someone will say "dust to dust, ashes to ashes" and my dust will glitter like a million twinkling tiny stars that float on a soft breeze landing tiny speck by tiny speck and shine on forever wherever they land.
      Because of my strange life and being an artist (both in heart and mind) I am over sensitive and imaginative, almost unworldly because I love too easily and care too much. my world would be full of people like you, Elle, Steam and all the others that care about each other..
      My H is the polar opposite, practical, organized, un romantic and has no imagination. we are the preverbal "Odd Couple) Yet I truly believed in him I am his greatest fan and simply adore him because as you picked up so quickly he does use attack as his best defence. I know he does not show it well yet after the fiasco about his forever.com e-mail address he went wild then as usual when he calmed down this is what he told me" PLEASE stop reminding me of my past mistake, I cannot take it, I just want it to go away I suppose I must be ashamed but you do not help by bringing OW up constantly" Well I do not bring her up. him sending a message from his and her name forever.com e mail address bought her up NOT me. so I believe he is muddled up in his thinking despite his academic brilliance. I say gently at these times "No need to feel guilty, I have forgiven you yet it can never go away it is there in the ether in memories both yours and mine. she is now part of who you are and definitely bought out the very worst side of you" (those porno photos heavy drinking sessions and persistence in turning him against me)
      Like you say he is a clever man but has human failings as we all do.
      I love the quote "A fool thinks himself to be a wise man a wise man knows himself to be a fool"
      My granddad always said "Oh to see us as others see us" and although he died when I was only eleven years old and i thought him my true father he was a very wise man. "My beautiful little Polly Parrot you carry on chattering and loving all you see, through your eyes everything is beautiful" those words remind me that even through a difficult childhood I must have had hope and love, as I still do. Fairydust I am pleased to add another wise and beautiful person into my life

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    4. Oh I love that you have those gorgeous memories of your grandad. I too have many fond memories from my Nana. And you are right I think - it only takes a few people in our lives to let us know that we are special, that we are valued for who we actually are. Sometimes we have to remind ourselves of this, but it helps carry us through our cloudy days. I also love that you are able to pass this quality on to your own family - a caretaker of other peoples' hearts is an awesome thing indeed.

      You also made me ponder something else - throughout my life I have always been intrigued by personality types - e.g. Carl Jung/Myers Briggs etc. I wonder if certain personality types are more prone to infidelity, and other more prone to be the recipient of betrayal?

      Like your husband, mine also hates to be reminded of his past mistakes. He can get cranky very quickly if he thinks I am making a 'dig' about anything to do with his affair, and I have to appease his temper to avoid things escalating unnecessarily. Our husbands sound equally high maintenance in this regard.

      Have a wonderful day beautiful Polly, keep smiling and spreading fairydust.

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    5. Polly and Fairydust,
      Your exchange makes me smile. I love how often we "get" each other on this site.
      Polly, I have spent a lifetime being told I'm "over-sensitive". It took me to 50 to realize that "oversensitive" is code for "your feelings are making me uncomfortable. Please stop expressing them." The people who called me "oversensitive" have inevitably been those extremely uncomfortable with feelings -- especially if they feel any responsibility for those feelings. So please, recognize "oversensitivity" for exactly what it is -- a deep engagement with the world and those in it.
      As for your husband's rant, it really comes down to whether or not he's interested in doing what he can to help you heal (which includes being totally transparent in order for you to be able to rebuild trust. Surely he can't argue that he's shown himself worthy of trust) or if his only interest is in helping himself feel better by ignoring the wound he's inflicted on you and his marriage. Simple question. We don't run over someone with our vehicle and then request that we not be reminded of what we did because it makes us feel bad. We tend to the wounds of the person we injured. We lose our license (forget our "freedom" to operate a vehicle). We pay our fines. Etc. Etc.
      Polly, your husband might be a brilliant psychologist but he's a lousy husband and a worse friend. And yes, he's clearly learned that anger is the perfect countermove to get you to back off. Smart. But not very compassionate, fair or ethical.
      My hope for you is that you'll learn to truly trust your instincts, which are right about so much more than he gives you credit for. And that you'll give yourself the respect that you so deserve.

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  11. Hi Elle

    Firstly I have to thank you so much for all your help and support since I joined your site in April , I have also gained so much insight from all of your contributors . My life has changed so much over the last few weeks , I am in the process of selling my business which will be finalized in 2 weeks

    For the first time in years I have had a really good talk with my wife explaining to her my actions , I will turn 60 in October next years and as Anonymous said above " Being in our 60's it is not to late to find your inner warrior " , well I have found my warrior . I have given my wife a copy of all the documents of the sale so she knows that I'm not playing games with her and she knows that she will get half of the sale price . As soon as I finalize the sale I plan to sell our house and again show her all the details and give her half , then I am free , my youngest daughter and I are going to get a smaller place to live in and my wife can do whatever she likes .

    She was so shocked when I presented her with my plans and I'm sure she has so many regrets and even tried to persuade me not to sell the house suggested that maybe we could be a lot more friendly and be a happier family again and even admitted that her affair was a mistake and she wished it never happened , WTF ( sorry ) after 12 years of living with her like I have it is a bit late .For the first time in the last 12 years I felt that I had some control over my future and I was no longer living in the shadow of her affair partner , we have figuratively shared our home and our life with him for 12 years and now when I move out he no longer has any control over me

    Thank you again

    Ross

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    1. Oh Ross! What a wonderful letter. I'm so glad you've assumed the driver's seat in your own life. Your "inner warrior".
      This will be a whole new start for you.
      Please continue to update us and let us know how you're doing. We wish you only great things!

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    2. I'm so happy for you as well. You deserve all the happiness you can hold. I enjoyed all your insights. Please keep us in the loop of your new life and what happens. As Steam said you handed her the bill for her lies and deception. She has to live with that.

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  12. Feeling triggered today. I just made an appointment with a client to meet them and it is in the same general area as the park my H and OW met mostly to have sex in her car. I feel like vomiting with just the name of the town as the park is the same name. We have been having some really great days with few triggers. Yesterday, when I took out our truck I was triggered also but got over it. I remember her telling game that when her car broke down, he drove up in our truck to help her out, even though she had already called a tow truck. When we previously discussed this, he said, yes he went to help her out as he would any friend....well first, she was more than a friend and so I had to remind him about the few times that I had a breakdown and called him and his words were, and I quote "what do you want me to do about it, call the auto association". Thankfully, he now sees his attitude towards me in our marriage has been very selfish. he says he just wants to treat me the way I deserve to be treated, wants to grow old and wake up to me every day and will do everything he can to make that happen if possible. Does everyone have this happen to them? When things start looking so much better, then bam, a few triggers and back to feeling anxious, upset, angry, hurt and wondering if its possible to really move forward. This sucks is all i can say

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    1. Right there with you Lizzie. I'm visiting the city where it all started this week and I'm reeling in pain remembering every horrid detail (detail it took several months to get out of his trickle mouth). Your story about the broken down car and his response to her and to you had me crying in outrage and disbelief, I'm so so sorry for your pain, I don't even know him or you but I'm so angry that he didn't rush to your side. My husband is now also aware of his past selfish ways and like yours is doing what he can to make our life a much better story then our past. I'm actually feeling pretty strong and happy most of the time but today I'm a mess back to feeling insecure, anxious, hurt, isolated and alone living in a dark abyss of pain. It does suck it really does and I'm sorry we are going through the despair of living as the betrayed, it's such a nightmare. I can't seem to stop crying over my breakfast.

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    2. Rose, thank you for your response and empathy. It means a lot to me. One of the times that he left me to fend for myself with a broken down car was when I was about 8 months pregnant in winter with no cell phone (cause there were none at the time). I had to call from someones house and then sit in the freezing car for an hour waiting for a two truck. He is disgusted with himself now but it doesn't change how it made me feel when I heard about him rushing to her side he help her out. She had a cell phone, called a tow truck and had a take out restaurant immediately across the street to sit and wait in if she wanted....he was not required.

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    3. Lizzie and Rose,
      Yes, triggers are to be expected. It helps to have something of a plan for when they do. To remind yourself that you are not still in that horrible situation. To breathe through it and focus on how things have changed since then. To re-root yourself in the present because you're being transported to the past and there's nothing you can do to change the past.

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  13. I've been reading this site for several months now but couldn't bring myself until now to post my own story. It started on January 10, 2015 when my husband was pacing around the kitchen while I got the kids breakfast. I asked him to sit down and tell me what was up, I'd never seen him pace he is normally so easy going especially on a weekend morning. He sat down right next to our baby eating in her high chair and said, "The worst thing has happened, the worst." My heart dropped I thought he had lost his job, I sank down into the chair next to him heart pounding and he looked me in the eye and said, "Last night I ended a four month affair with Manhands" (my name for her not her actual name obviously :) She was his hair stylist, my bald husbands hair stylist, he would go in for a razor shave and nose and eye brow pluckings etc. it all seems so crazy now. Anyway I thought he was joking, our marriage of 15 years that had produced 3 beautiful children and endless happy memories was like a charmed dream. We talked all the time had sex every night we were there for each other in every way... or so I thought. My entire world crashed around me and suddenly I was unsure of every single thing I thought I knew, my entire history burst into flames and I felt myself sink into the deepest darkest spot in the middle of the loneliest of midnight oceans. Then the nightmare talks began the ones so many of you are all too familiar with, the details started to leak out oh so painfully slowly. He had rewritten our past, had rewritten his feelings for me to justify his horrible wrong behavior. Unlike many of you in my story the OW is model beautiful with her tiny waist and her huge boobs and flowing long hair, seriously she is breathtaking and ten years younger then me. She is bat shit crazy, terribly shallow and mean, insecure, immature, morally corrupt and has low intellect and yes manhands so all of that helps but still her body kills me, I'm thin and fit and look great at age 40 but I'll never look like a model, my self esteem took a shattering hit with this affair.

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    1. Hey just to say I am with you - my husband had his affair with a woman 10 years younger than me. Super tall and slim and beautiful. I'm small, slim build and fair and she is dark and Hispanic and opposite to me in every way. It sucks xx

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    2. I know that you know this but maybe don't yet trust this is that what she looked like had nothing to do with it. It was how he felt in the affair. Like he was sexy and interesting and all those things that are hard to feel when life is moving on and you're facing your mortality and bills and a crappy boss, etc. etc. They do tell themselves stories to justify what they're doing. Stories about how they're unappreciated and unvalued and on and on.
      It doesn't take a beautiful woman to tempt them, it takes a willing one.
      Batshit crazy, shallow, etc. sound positively ugly to me. What's more, looks fade. And when that inevitably happens, you'd damn well better like the person you're with.

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    3. This is both truthful and comforting..Thankyou Elle

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  14. She aggressively threw herself at him (even though she is also married with 4 little kids) she went after him with an insane intensity and he crumbled for her backseat sex. Then she kept him captive with threats of her (Very muscular meat head) husband she would tell him if he ever left her she would turn it all onto him and have her husband come kill or terribly maim him (all true I read it in her emails) Anyway my husband stayed with her for four months losing weight, vomiting for no reason, lying his ass off constantly to me. He finally broke it off with her and decided he would take the death of beating from her husband over the misery the affair was causing in his soul. The husband did come over to attack him but my husband who has a tongue like honey talked him out if... ugg it all makes me so angry the whole story kills me anyway I knew something was off but by some twist of fate the week before the affair started my husband had hernia surgery... so when suddenly he was unable to have sex with me I felt so bad for him because I was convinced it was a side effect of the surgery and that all the other symptoms were his depression over our newly struggling sex life. He was having sex with her 5-7 times a week for 4 months and I was feeling sorry for him thinking he could no longer perform due to surgery!!! It makes me scream. He says now all he wanted was me but his guilt and shame would burn so strongly he could barely touch me without wanted to die. And he has done everything, everything right in our recovery and honestly our new relationship is full of hope and it's better on some levels then it's ever been but I still have moments and days of the deepest despair and today is one of them. I love him and it's so unfair. There is so much more to this story, but I need to stop I'm breaking down in tears and I need to drink some water, dry my eyes, shower and get ready for my baby to wake up from her nap. I really just want to say I'm so very grateful for all of you sharing your stories and your strength. This site has been a beacon of light for me and I'm so sorry that we are all here sharing in this experience, but I'm so relieved to have a place to not feel isolated and alone. Thank you.

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    1. The details are hard to read, they differ for each of us yet the pain is identical, Your story is similar to mine in the fact that his OW was 20years younger than me I am 66 that age difference crucified me.I became so confused because not only was she young enough to be our daughter she was the polar opposite to me !!
      Aggressive assertive manipulative jealous and opinionated. All the traits my H always said he hated. Under her influence he took close up porno photo's of him inside her, him aiming his thing at her backside, them naked doing it under a tree. He became hard and cruel to me began dinking with her so heavily he was out his mind, they actually had fights in bed she threw him often off the bed hurting him he was covered in bruises bites and love bites so he had took to wearing T shirts in bed to hide the marks, He became a deceitful liar which after 50 years together I was unable to understand how much he had changed. Until we talked and she began her campaign to stop him staying with me. He told me that in his 40 years as a lecturer he had made many friends within both student and staff yet NEVER one like OW she aggressively went out to have the affair knowing he was married. I know he did not have to go there yet part of me understands that he would be flattered and intrigued and fell into her trap. we had been each others only sexual partners so I expect curiosity entered the mix yet he maintains he would never have instigated seeing her in the first place.I believe our husbands suffer from depression too after their betrayal. they are full of guilt and in my husbands case he attacks if he thinks he is under any threat.
      His OW threatened me!(verbally) not him, she was horrendous which actually helped him sort his head out because he had enjoyed the challenge of being alpha male and her capitulating herself to be more like me which she did try to do in ways like taking my place in his hobbies (bird watching, hill walking etc. even taking on my Buddhist beliefs) but her aggression against me and my quiet unworldly over sensitivity made him try to protect me. Men and in some cases woman are just selfish stupid fools to succumb to such people. In her case he was her latest lover in a list too long to remember YUK !!!! Our partners show themselves to be weak and disloyal. It makes them feel bad because even at the time and after they know themselves to be dishonourable. SO we must try to be the opposite .Not easy at all we just got to hang in there or go. Good luck and much love Polly

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    2. ^Yes! Polly she is my opposite too in so many ways that he hates, she is very dim can barely carry a conversation, so shallow and weak minded. All she cares about is that she feels good and more importantly that she looks good. This was her second affair on her husband she was the aggressor both times, my husbands first. But she threatened me as well once it all blew up, she sent me a few nasty messages until I quickly shut her down with my information on her (my husband has given me every little detail much to her horror) She tried playing it off to her husband as an emotional affair. We told him it was very physical as well and he freaked out but she isn't giving him any details and I'm certain is playing the innocent mislead woman and my husband as the monster. They were equally cruel to their spouses in getting into this affair but in my opinion she was worse with all her threats of harm and her manipulation, though I know he started out as a willing participant and was such a weak ass to not get out for 4 months. He was in a mid-life crisis and so flattered this beautiful woman was after him... while I was home nursing a 3 month old baby... ugg it was all such a nasty and messy event. But you are right and I'm glad you turned my head to a new place for focus. My husband is depressed and so upset by his actions and words against me, he has always been such an amazing man and husband and is completely horrified by his behavior and I'm still amazed at the change in him. I think the nightmare of this event has altered both of us for the better in many ways. I feel lucky that we are working hard at rebuilding and that we do love each other. I'm trying to help him heal right along with me, the old marriage is dead and sometimes I mourn for it and my past innocent happiness. But at the same time I see light in our future together in a new better marriage one with much more blunt and open communication. It's not easy but I lean hard on my mantra of "It could be worse"

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  15. Lizzie I can't remember your timeline but yes triggers can come at anytime. As time goes on however they are usually less frequent less powerful and controlling and less all consuming. My last MAJOR one was 6 months ago (a year after d day) but I DO still get them. But I can now treat them along the same lines as any other glitch in my life. The worst come from TV, movies, anything that glamourizes affairs now. Or some that show how awful it really is (season 1 true detectives HBO --small scenes sent me into a spin when wife found out). You are so normal which does not make you feel better. Just know you are normal. And your H sound like he knows he effed up in a huge way. It does suck. No two ways around it. But it can and hopefully will get better for you.

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  16. Dear Lizzie it takes so long to heal and as one counsellor told me it will leave a scar forever. when we look at that scar we will be reminded of the pain it took to get it. We can often wonder on low days if it will heal at all. This site has helped me so much to find my healing space .What we have to come to terms with is that we are forever changed and hopefully into a stronger version of ourselves. I told my husband that OW is part of OUR history and memories some maybe good for him all horrible to me but never the less they will remain in our memory like every thing else in our past does. One day in our future those painful memories WILL fade yet never go. My husband and Fairydusts seem to think they can say that they do not want to remember a painful past. Yet who among us has not memories of horrendous pain that we never think about for months even years . like death of a loved one or accident etc. I believe Elle when she told me it will get easier, yet like any grief and traumatic event we have to go through the various stages like shock, anger, jealousy, insecurity and all the rest that we need to live through to come out the other end. Like me most of us will try too hard to be attractive lose weight, dress better get modern because inside our wounded heads we let ourselves think that if we were all those things our H would not have betrayed us often with a known slut or predatory woman who offered them something THEY alone processed as needing so badly they destroyed what they already had. They made a selfish choice now we got to handle the pain. good luck Lizzie just cry when you need too, rant when necessary but balance it with a laugh or a giggle and hope the good times one day overtake the bad which they surely will. Polly

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    1. Thank you Polly and everyone else for your replies. It was a difficult day but I think I am getting thought it.
      Polly-some of the first thoughts I had after he admitted to his affair was that I am too fat- said to myself, I may never eat again. Then I must be ugly....I tell feel weird when he sees me without make up. I worry about cellulite and not being in shape etc. I lost 45-50 lbs after DDay but it was so fast, my muscle tone has atrophied and I feel physically weak and like my skin is old. I feel embarrassed about it. Funny thing is, OW is older than me, she is not attractive and when it started she was much heavier than me (it was such a long affair I started out thin and gained weight and she was heavier originally) and she didn't lose anything, she is still over weight. He said he didn't "see" her at all, says she was faceless. She is everything he dislikes in people....loud, obnoxious, rude, lies, smokes, etc, etc etc. So why was he attracted to her? He says he was never attracted to her. He doesn't get it himself. He has no idea and when he even thinks about what he did with her he is physically sick....has actually vomited.
      Everyday seems to be a struggle but overall it is getting al little better. I have good days and bad days now instead of all bad. Thank you all for your support

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    2. Ladies, I've said it before and I'll say it again: He didn't cheat with her because she's beautiful or special, he cheated with her because she was willing. That's all it takes to be an OW. Willingness.

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  17. This is an excellent article on gaslighting:
    http://everydayfeminism.com/2015/06/gaslighting-is-an-abuse-tactic/
    It took me awhile to get how psychologically manipulated I was by my spouse as he tried to deflect his shame onto me. Once I caught on, I got much stronger and smarter.
    Hope this helps others.

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  18. Dear Anonymous. I was so sad to read your post. I want to send you my love.
    I am just over 2 years after DDay. Marriage changes forever when you realise the person you believed in can no longer be believed. We never really know what they are thinking or feeling. I believe my husband fell in love but she was also married so when I found out and knocked on her front door it ended. But what the future holds I don't know. Should something happen to her husband or marriage will she be back! What would happen if she phoned him.
    It's hell to stay but at 55 and together for 34 years would be hell to go.
    The decision has been made for you. Be strong live life for you and your children. It's his loss. God bless

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  19. 35th wedding anniversary coming up. 3 years since I found out about 2 affairs with the same woman, his ex girlfriend. They also maintained phone contact for 18 years between the 2 affairs. She is the ex girlfriend I fully expected to turn up at the church at our wedding and shout 'It should have been me'. She has made a number of attempts to reconnect over the last 3years and my husband has informed me each time and showed me his no contact texts. We are both in our mid sixties, the OW is a year younger and her husband is 70ish. I do think she will try again, maybe if her husband passes away as she married him whilst still conducting her affair with my husband. I keep constant watch just in case, maybe the wrong thing to do but I will not be relaxing my vigilance

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  20. Hi its Polly here
    I read some of your comments on how OW treated you and how you felt. Well I think most of you will know that I am a little on the naïve side and fight very little, yet 18 months ago when OW rang me (On my H cell phone) I said "Hello darling where are you " (obviously thinking it was him)The reply came loud and very coarse "Its me H does not want to talk to you he told me to tell you to F**K off and leave us alone he is with me now" (OUCH)
    "Put him on let him tell me himself" I said quietly
    "NO F**K off you stupid old bitch "(OUCH OUCH)
    My fighting spirit rose out of no where making my peaceful beliefs disappear and as H had shown me his porno photos of them together just because he thought someone was flirting with me. I let RIP!!! I am ashamed NOT! but this is what I said (Very quietly and controlled)
    "Tee Hee Hee what a prize fool you are, He just used you and has shown me and others in the pub your bare ass, your ugly hairy flabby bits as you let him make a fool of you, I have seen you on the lav and by the way dirty looking nickers with red bows on(true) and everyone in the pub laughed that he could get you naked under a tree arms outstretched sucking a sausage you made us all laugh!!"( CRUEL eh). "you told him if he ever slept with me it would be over between him and you, well he lied to us both darling, he will not leave me alone tells me its ME he loves your just like a game of Chess he wants to master, (true again)So he lies to us both but at least I cannot be humiliated by his friends seeing me behave like a slut !!!"
    Well I was shaking like a leaf and needed more than a little sprinkle of fairy dust to get under control.
    H came home bashful and mad in equal parts "What ever did you say to her she could not stop crying and attacked me( Tee Hee) I was asleep drank too much sio did not know what happened?"
    I told him word for word and he exploded in rage "You cruel pig, you will have destroyed her !"
    "Did I lie Sir?" I said sarcastically. He knew I had not but I felt both better and worse but at least it felt like I had destroyed a little of her as she had destroyed a lot of me! Not my proudest moment but she knew he had definitely shown me her "Private parts" (Giggle) as I gave the gory details.
    Even the softest worm can turn and though not proud of my behaviour I console myself that I would NEVER have contacted HER ! so tough she used his phone witch is a BAD thing in his mind. .
    Hope you are all not ashamed of me . I did several kind deeds to ease my conscience
    Bye for now chin up all of you x x x x

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  21. Elizabeth Gilbert just wrote this in the NY Times. My H and I read this and it made alot of sense to him as "Sex and Love addict." I think she provides real insight into the mind of the OW (though she refers to the wife/girlfriend as the other woman. But i think it gives credence to the twisted thinking of the OW who sees the man as belonging to her.)
    http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/28/magazine/confessions-of-a-seduction-addict.html?action=click&contentCollection=Style&module=MostEmailed&version=Full&region=Marginalia&src=me&pgtype=article

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    1. MBS,
      I've been working on a post that's going to go up tomorrow about this exact article. I agree that it's a rare insight into the twisted thinking of an OW.

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    2. Hi Elle

      That is a really interesting article but I'm sure there are as many reasons why people cheat as there are colors in the spectrum , I'm my case , we went to a MC after my wife had her affair and I continued to go privately when my wife stopped going and the interesting things the MC said was basically two fold

      The first was that my wife divided her life in two , one half was that with her other man they worked together and they shared so much communication and closeness at work that she became infatuated with him , he was there for her 8 hours a day , then when they were together after work there was no worries about children , bills to pay , all the other distractions that occur in a marriage , they could just focus on each other

      The second was the my wife never knew his wife , had never seen her so in her eyes she didn't exist so when her affair became sexual she wasn't cheating on his wife and because she felt our marriage was over she was free to pursue this other relationship and she wasn't cheating on me

      That was why she was so destroyed when her affair was found out by his wife and he dumped her to stay with his wife she felt he had cheated on her , she really felt like so many of you women here , her man had chosen to be with another woman

      Just my thoughts

      Alan

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  22. D day was 10 months ago, and THIS is the FIRST time i have felt that i may not want to re build my marriage. Its the first time i have had any other thought than rebuilding, and being husband and wife. I took off my wedding rings, and for the first time I felt free. What is happening right now? Im so confused. Is it because we have fallen back into more of a comfort level? No one is trying "as hard?"
    The question remains, what do i do? How do i know what decision is the right decision? This feeling is both enlightening and terrifying.
    help :s

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    1. Anonymous,
      One of the pieces of advice that most "experts" offer is to wait at least six months before deciding whether to leave or stay. It's to let the dust settle, to ensure that you're not just reacting to pain but actually making a choice about where you want to be.
      It sounds as if you're there. As if you're getting more clear on where you want to be. Neither choice will feel "easy". But one will certainly feel more "right".

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  23. Honestly, if we didnt have 2 young children, i think i would have left already. Its the thought of not seeing my babies everyday that makes this so hard. Im not sure what to do. I have never been so confused. Im not even sure its the affair anymore, im confused about the fact of even being compatable in life as partners. On good days, its REALLY GOOD and on bad days its almost unbearable. Any suggestions from any of you beautiful ladies is warmly welcomed.

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    1. That's exactly what kept me from leaving. I couldn't imagine giving up my kids every second weekend. A funny thing happened, though, while I was figuring out how to stay in a marriage that I didn't think I wanted to be in. My husband sought help for himself and really did become the better man he promised. I gained respect for him, watching him work so hard. I watched him re-dedicate himself to his kids and to me. And I decided to stay and rebuild a second marriage with my first husband.
      I don't know how long since D-Day but most experts suggest waiting six months to a year for the emotional shock to wear off (and to see just how sincere an unfaithful spouse is) before you make any big decisions.
      Are you two in couples counselling? Was the marriage a good one before he cheated (sounds like a dumb question but I hope you know what I mean)? Or were two already dealing with deeper issues?
      You might want to also find a therapist to explore this with. Betrayal shakes us to the core.

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  24. No counselling. We were doing so well together, communicating, re learning about one another. Our marriage was great, or so i thought. We had our fights, and disagreements, but never once did i stop loving him. I still cant get over how easily manipulated i was. How my trust was thrown back in my face. How people would laugh knowing i had not one clue this was happening.
    Maybe i should do some counselling myself. Maybe i need to start exploring this new feeling and see if its something i should build on. Or, maybe its just a feeling of the moment.
    Bah! Confusion at its finest.

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    1. I honestly don't know how people move forward from this without counselling. There's just so much pain there and our culture doesn't really have a blueprint for healing from infidelity. We're flying blind. A therapist helps us work through the pain while rebuilding a strong marriage. Without that, I fear too much gets swept under the rug.

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    2. Thanks elle, for your words as always. Im going to seek some help, if not for us, for me.

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  25. DDay #1 April 2013.
    Trying so so bloody hard to make it work. I sought help for me. I sought help for us. I lost myself in my family, my children, my friends, my work. There was so much support in so many tiny ways. I tried to talk to him. I tried to not talk to him. I carried on crying and smiling and charging forward looking at life as best I could and hoping for something so so very simple.

    If I was happy I was being disingenuous. If I was sad I was never going to get over it. If I wanted to talk it was a burden. If I got on with life it was questioned whether I was really happy. I couldn’t do anything right and he remained miserable. I thought it might be depression. I thought it might be a million things. I thought and thought and thought and tried and tried and tried.

    On good days I thought maybe it would be better to separate if it would ultimately make him happy. On bad days I cried and cried as all I really wanted was to be loved and respected simply by the person who promised me.

    End April 2015
    We “agreed” to separate. It hurt so very badly every day as he withdrew and I was left with less and less and less. It became slowly cruel. I just said it was untenable. He was finally happy we agreed on something. He said we tried and admitted he never thought it was something that we or anyone could recover from. So we, on friendly terms agreed. He managed me and the situation. I in a stupor went along with it, thinking only of our boys.

    He moved out. We told those we needed. We were/are amicable. We take care of the children. He became happier. I deal with the boys emotions. I became sad. The remoteness, what I never wanted. His ring came off too easy. It was all too easy for him. He just kept managing me and talking me around to how we had tried and how it just wasn’t right or well or ok even after all that trying. I knew he hadn’t tried, but I wanted to think the best. I wanted to think he tried the best he could.

    DDay #2 end June 2015
    It was all a lie. - the trying - his managed story of trying. And then I find out he has been, for months at least, carrying on with someone else. It may be the same person. It may be someone different. It doesn’t matter anymore. I had asked him. Before, during, after. Not often, but when that gut feeling, when my oh so precious intuition cut deep enough to push me to action. He lied. No more questions. I don’t need any answers. It doesn’t matter. Lies. Broad faced, look you straight in the eyes, lies. It is something I cannot understand. I cannot get my head around how someone can live like that.

    I thought he was lovely. I thought our story was beautiful. I thought what we had been through and built was amazing. I thought it was everything. And I thought it was forever.

    20 years later. 2.5 years since the affair started, I finally really see him. The veil has lifted.
    I don’t want to repaint my picture. I want to believe he is who I thought he was, but now…it is crushing.
    Inchworm

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    Replies
    1. Inchworm,
      Your story is heartbreaking. It is, of course, impossible to rebuild a marriage with only people in it. He was clearly not.
      I know it's hard for you to see it right now but it's his loss. His loss of integrity. His loss of respect. His loss of an intact family and the chance to see his boys grow up under his nose.
      But of course this is loss for you too. Loss of your perceived future. Loss of hope that you can make it work. Loss of the dream you thought you had.
      In the end, though, you still have your integrity and your self-respect. You will be fine.
      Grieve. Feel the deep loss, trusting that you won't feel it forever. That it will be filled with support of those who love you and with new experiences and the possibility of a deep, honest love with someone new down the road.
      None of us wants to believe we were wrong about something we thought was so right. But what he's shown you -- what's he's clearly capable of -- is not someone you want in your life. It's cruel and narcissistic and dysfunctional.
      Hang in there, Inchworm. We're here to listen and remind you, as often as you need reminding, that you are stronger than you know. And that you will emerge from this with your wonderful boys...and be fine.

      Delete
  26. Inchworm, I am heartbroken by your story. That he looked into your eyes and lied. Pain is pain is pain and this hurts like hell.
    I am certain I could not bear a 2nd betrayal nor live with someone who, after promising to tell the truth after D-day just could not or chose not to keep that very simple and basic promise. Not only that--he told you how to act and how to feel and put the burden onto you, how TERRIBLY unfair.
    Now you know what you are dealing with under that damn veil-- and that must be crushing just as you said...and in the same breath, easier (although it's rarely easy) to say good bye. I am so so sorry. We all hold you in hugs.

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    Replies
    1. Inchworm,

      I am so sorry to hear your story. It truly is heartbreaking. You deserve so much better than that. I am sure earlier in the relationship it was real. He was the person you thought he was. Your relationship was full of love and good. But, now he is not the same person you fell in love with. He has betrayed you beyond belief. I hope you can find a counselor to speak with about it. I don't know what I would do without my therapist. And I never went to therapy before my husband betrayed me. But, if you find the right person, it makes all the difference to helping you get through it. Give yourself time to grieve. Give yourself time for anger. Give yourself time to cry. Sending you a huge hug.

      Delete
  27. So, Sunday was our first family visit to see my husband at his inpatient rehab. He wears a necklace he made with my name and our kids names. He has another necklace with symbols to represent us all. He was engaged with the girls, shaved the beard she loved so much, seemed so happy. He really likes being there. It's a beautiful setting and the people have been very accepting. We didn't get much time to speak alone, but he did tell me he wants to do what he can to get better and get his family back and his wife back. He seems to be saying all the right things. But, he's been there only a week and a half so he still has a lot of work to do. He said in a moment of weakness, he did write OW because he felt so guilty with how he ended it (an audio text) and wanted to let her know where he was. She supposedly wrote him back and is angry with him and continues to tell him she's pregnant. He really doesn't believe it's true, but I guess there is always the chance. I am quite upset knowing he reached out to her. I know he hasn't called her as he only gets 15 minutes a week for calls and is using it to call me. I know she hasn't visited because we were there on visiting day and they won't allow an addict inside. And I guess I should appreciate his honesty that he did reach out to her. And I should understand that he can't stop his feelings right away with her. It's an addiction. I do get it, but it doesn't make me feel any better. I want him to see her the way everyone else sees her. Pure evil and a manipulative liar. I have a lot of other choice words, but will refrain here as you all know. The kids and I will go visit again this Sunday and the following week, I will be there for three days to do the Family Wellness Program. I know it will be an extremely hard three days for both of us. But, I have also heard that it will help me so much. And I will be able to unleash on him with a counselor present and he won't be able to respond. He will need to sit and just listen. I need him to truly understand he needs to be 100% committed to me and our children or it's over. If he contacts her again, it's over. He calls this a process addiction and I just can't understand it. I don't get it. She is a horrible horrible person. He and I had such a great marriage before this. We have been together 20 years and had the relationship others envied. This mid life crisis really did a number on him and his addictions which were pretty much dormant for our entire relationship. I really hope he can get the help he needs because the kids and I really do want him back. I know it's a really long road, but I'm willing to do it as long as I can trust he wants it to and he can stop all the lies and deception. Why is life so hard? My birthday was on Saturday and even though others tried to make it special, it just felt like a normal day and I was crushed to not have him with me. His counselor did let him call me for five minutes and he was able to send me a card which said all the right things, but it still sucked.
    E

    ReplyDelete
  28. E-here's the deal. True, he can't control his emotions--neither can you or I, but what he CAN control are his actions. My H did the same thing and tried 3 effing times to send a more compassionate "goodbye' e-mail. Nothing extraordinarily different than the one I watched him write, send, and then delete the fake email account he had been using, but the fact that he did it without telling me pissed me off and hurt me to NO end. Those three-mail tries never made it to her, as he did not know her email by heart (thank God for convoluted e-mail addresses with underscores and numbers). I digress, but I am with you, he has now crossed you for a 2nd time and there should be no more. Your Heartbreak, Your Rules. She is banished. He must agree. No Contact of any kind. Wishing you well

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    Replies
    1. Steam, you are right. He needs to agree to that. When we have our three day program, I plan on reiterating that exact stipulation. And if she is pregnant (like she is all the sudden claiming once he ended it), then he can pay her whatever is court mandated, but that's it. I would not allow any contact at all. That child would not be his in my eyes. I don't believe she is pregnant as she has tried this before and she's still using all her drugs/alcohol/cigarettes and wasn't even due for her period yet when she said she was, but on the off off chance...F her. She doesn't deserve anything.
      E

      Delete
    2. E,
      Steam is right. And what is being asked of you -- to support him through this -- is a LOT. He needs to step up and show himself in every way worthy of the time/energy/chances you're giving him. Addiction is not an excuse, it is not about him letting himself off the hook. It is a chance for him to own up to it and become a better man. It gives him a roadmap for how to get out of hell. But that does NOT include sending her a letter. SHE is like cocaine to him. She is toxic. Steam is right -- she needs to be banished.
      Hang in there, E. Keep posting and venting and seeking support from any healthy place you can get it.

      Delete
  29. 18 weeks past DD, I am almost 60 and found out that my H of almost 40 has been having a sexual affair with his coworker for the past 4 years...... God I don't have to tell any of you how I feel. This bitch is 20 years younger than me, false boobs etc. my confidence is shattered my heart is breaking. My H was going to her house about 8 times a year for sex.... He said he did not love her, it was mutual sex. The last year they did not have sex at all. Think she was going off him......but she still invited him around and the old fool went. I don't know what to do, she knew he was married and invited him over, he told me that he knew what would happen and that he felt very flattered that someone younger found him attractive.....(my mother had not long died and he loved her as his own mother)
    I am dying inside...why did my loving caring husband jeperdise our marriage for sex.
    I just don't know what to do anymore, I am sorry for going on, I don't even know if this makes sense......I just feel a sad lonely old woman

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    Replies
    1. I have not decided what to do yet, you can't just stop loving someone after 40 years..... But I can say I also hate him for what he has done to me.

      Delete
    2. Yep, we've all been there. We love them, we hate them, we're staying, we're leaving. It's a maelstrom in our brains and hearts.
      What is your husband saying about this? What was going on in his head? Is he in any kind of therapy to figure out why he would jeopardize his marriage? We may never get the answers we want -- I'm not sure there is a "good" reason to cheat. But we can gain insight into the stories our husbands were telling themselves that allowed them to feel entitled to do this. It's, frankly, the only way to ensure they won't do it again. To pull those stories into the light of day and examine them as the bullshit they are.
      You might be sad, Anonymous, but you are not "old". "Almost sixty" is the new 40! :)
      Figure out what you want the rest of your life to look like and then figure out if he's capable of helping you achieve it. You've got a lot of living left to do.

      Delete
    3. Husband is so remorseful that he is making himself I'll, he is really trying to make our marriage work. He does not know why he did it, felt flattered.
      Not sure he knows himself. He has booked an appointment with a counsellor, she was toxic.
      I am growing stronger by the day, she might be younger, but she has no morals, just because she could not get a man she chose mine for sex, silly old fool.

      Not going to make any major choices yet. Not going to be sad lonely old woman anymore

      Delete
    4. Dear 18 weeks past DDay, I'm also 60 years old and felt like I was less everything for a long time including old. Not that this will solve how you feel but it was right for me. I went out and spent all the money on me that I always wanted to but didn't because all heard was "we don't have any money". Sure we didn't he was spending it on the OW. He gave her $500, $1240 necklace, wine, flowers, blah blah blah. So instead of having a revenge affair I had a I'll show you moment, well several moments. I started getting facials, expensive ones like hydrotherapy and the kind that takes the little fuzzy off your face too-on his credit card, I had eye lash extensions on his credit card, I bought hair extensions wow that broke the bank on his credit card, I had arm lift and mini tummy tuck on his credit card, I started yoga and belly dancing bought an outfit- on his credit card, I bought clothes not from dress barn anymore but talbots, chicos, white house black market - on his credit card. I bought a new sexy nightie to wear to bed every night - on his credit card. So went to a no burn tanning salon ultra bronzer stuff only $60 per session. I was no longer this crumpled up woman on a heap on the floor but I was doing all those things that I always wanted to do for ME. He couldn't say a word because of how much he spent on psych bitch kindergarten teacher. He gave me push back. I said I don't care if you have to cash in your 401k I'm doing it. Well it made me feel also better about myself for myself. Yes, he did have to cash in some 401k HIS not mine and I didn't give a damn. NOW I'm the hot looking grandma 60 year old. It was a total outside transformation but it was a start. I told my therapist oh well if I end up dumping him at least I will look great on his dime, have nice stuff and blue diamond jewelry. His eyes are on me now and he told me yesterday "everyday I'm anxious because I'm afraid you will leave me." You are so much better than false boobs, lies, poacher and 20 years younger doesn't mean a damn thing. I can tell you he is lying about how many times they had sex. My husband said 10 times, then 42 times and then it was less than once a week for two years which is 84 times. Get up getting moving be selfish and kick his ass. No it's is not a solution but I grasped at anything that made ME feel better. Superficial yes and no. Put it on a credit card in his name-Mr. Cheater. He will realize what a dumb shit he is for even thinking that low life was attractive. I'm still dealing with the pain and hurt on the inside, there is no salon for that but it did get me out of house. I didn't worry about tomorrow at the time, I figured paying the credit was his problem not mine. Come to think about it it was a reminder for him each month too, Mr. Scew-Up. Yes, I kept it all up but not quite to that extent.

      Delete
    5. Hi Lynn,
      I am 60 also...going to be 61 next month. I often thought about doing all kinds of things too...but something inside me made me realize that where my husband is concerned, I will always fall short...he likes the women half my age. I learned not to compete for his love or attention. Not to play the "pick me dance" because it seems humiliating. I never made the kind of horrible comments to him about his appearance that he did to me. Never, because I am not unkind and I know how it feels.

      I did however, do the hair extensions only because my stylist talked me into it when I found out that she had them (I was complimenting her hair). I think I spent well over $700 on those. My hair was 12inches longer when I went home. Result? After 3 WEEKS, he did not notice...so I had to point it out to him that it is rather unusual for hair to grow a foot over night haha! I.gave.up. right. then. After I went back to have the extensions moved up several times and to add more, I noticed that there was more of my own hair left on the floor than what was left on my head. So I had them all removed, but now, two years later, my hair is nice and as long naturally as it had been with the extensions. The problem was my hair never seeming to grow long because of all the perms I got trying to get that "BIG HAIR" look for my husband. It dried and broke off my hair faster than it could grow...so I gave that up too.

      Anyway, I understand wanting to feel like something when a husband makes you feel like nothing...unseen...ashamed and rejected. But, now I dress and look nice for ME. Kinda like..."take it or leave it, this is who I am". The hair thing was the ONLY thing I ever attempted to do for him (besides getting perms), so I saved thousands not bothering to do all the other things I had in mind. He taught me that he would still objectify other women regardless of what I looked like anyway. Now, I have a good sized savings instead of wasting money on trying to turn his head in my direction...and at my age, that savings makes Me feel empowered and is far more important considering what might be coming down the road if we cannot get through this.

      I hope you find comfort here...this is my first post directly to a woman here...but you reminded me of what I was going to do too...and how I felt when I found all the porn and the "just friends" woman in his life.

      Hugs,
      Rowena

      Delete
    6. Hi Lynn
      Great advice.......after being on the infidelity diet I have lost over 20 pounds, it's summer in England and none of my clothes fit......so had to buy new clothes.........if I say myself I am looking good, don't always feel good, but looking good. Getting compliments off people, H is noticing me more., but I am doing this for myself not him.
      it does not matter the amount of times he slept with her, he should not have went there in the first place.
      Feeling good not so old woman

      Delete
    7. Lynn Pain,

      Nice!! Well I've not gotten a complete makeover but with the infidelity diet I've lost 38 pounds and now nothing fits - we all know what that means - go shopping. Hair fell out in clumps so I am the proud owner of TWO very nice wigs. I'm 65 and although I always dress age appropriately - I bumped it up a bit. These changes are for me. I did need to loose weight but I was always well dressed for my size and age. Not old lady grandma styles but just nice casual type clothing. HIMSELF has also lost weight. His 20+/- year OW is 59, tall and rather cute. His 25++yo street pickup OW is just plain weird looking. (I'm being nice). His old high school girlfriend is 63yo and also weird looking (I'm being nice again) but she was a tiny little pixie stunner when he first cheated with her 30 years ago - I think he has been seeing her off and on for 30+ years. But all of these females have a surprise coming their way. In another post I will go into more detail.

      Hang in there one and all. ((((HUGS))))

      Delete
  30. I thought I had made a post, so if it is here twice sorry. I learned of my h affair through a text message while he was out of town. His mistress thought I should know she was involved with my husband and had been for several years. I pretended she was just one of many and I did not want to hear any more of their past! She professed it to be very present. I told her to let my h know she had 'shared her truth'. When my h came home, he admitted to the affair and said he was glad it was finally over. We talked through the night and decided to try to stay together. He had been trying to end the affair for more than a year. This ow would not let it end! For six months she continued to send email and texts for him to meet her. He refused. I had finally had enough of her harrasment. Her texts became more threatening so my h contacted the police. She was charged with harrasment and spent one night in jail. This was on April 1 of this year! Up to the point of the no contact instructed by the court she would not let us heal together as a couple! I went through all the emotions each of you expressed and am just now having more good than bad days. This blog has given me comfort knowing I am not crazy just because I act that way at times. H has explained this affair, and where his heart and mind were when it started. He feels this experience has shown him how to be a better man. He has been open with his contact with her this past six months as she refused to let him go! So for me his new responsibility is to prove he is a better man with his actions with our relationship. I know we have a long way. Trust is one thing I don't feel yet. Peace that he did choose our marriage over his lustful selfish relationship with her!
    T

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. T,
      I hope your husband uses this chance to truly become the better man you're giving him the chance to be. And it sounds as if you're starting to heal. That's really great to hear. Hang in there. Glad we've provided some comfort as you work through this. And glad, too, that you called this OW out on her craziness...and that the courts responded. I hope she takes her freakish road show somewhere else.
      You do have a long way -- healing takes a lot longer than most of us imagine. But you're certainly on the right road.

      Delete
  31. Dear Anonymous
    I am very envious of you. Envious that you know your husband has chosen you. I will never know that. My husband told me he was texting sex lines so he could carry on the affair. I then ended it when I knocked on her door.
    I will never know his feelings for her. He does not want to talk about it and to draw a line under it! Becomes very angry with me when I ask a question. Says he has no feelings and it was a mistake. She has a very privileged life with her husband.
    I know he is unhappy again working hard as mentioned here before we lost money over a business again over 2 years ago which all happened the time the affair was found out.
    I'm so jealous of her, her life and their relationship. He wants to go sailing. Something he's wanted to do for years. We just had a row I said why don't you ask your girlfriend if you can go on her boat. He said she don't have one. She would have told me if she had. I had made it up. Made me feel sick to my stomach that he's so confident with their relationship that they were so close. God I'm so jealous of the whole thing. I will never get over what they had.


    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Jane,
      Your pain is palpable. You sound incredibly alone. What are you doing for yourself to help you heal? If he won't talk to you, then you're left with imaginings about what his feelings were. And usually those imaginings are far better than the reality.
      Please do what you can to rebuild your own self-esteem. Someone's worth isn't about whether or not they have money and a sailboat. You've got a whole lot more to offer than that. For one thing, you didn't cheat on your husband. But I sense a lack of self-respect, which you can do something about. I hope you will.

      Delete
  32. Is is safe here to include my faith in God when I share?
    Thanks,
    Rowena

    ReplyDelete
    Replies
    1. Absolutely. We work hard to ensure this is a safe place for each of us to share our stories, our feelings, our lessons learned, our lessons we haven't yet learned. Women here come from many faiths...or none at all. All are completely welcome.

      Delete
  33. What I mean is that as I talk about my situation, that I might also include comments that pertain to my struggles where God is part of this too. I do not mean trying to proselytize others. Sometimes the Lord gives me insight and I would naturally include that insight as to the reasons why I do something (or not). When I was on ChumpLady site, I was made to feel foolish for having a faith base to work from.

    Rowena

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    Replies
    1. Rowena,
      I want this site to be a place of kindness and support. We don't have to agree with other but we do have to respect each other's point of view.

      Delete
  34. Rowena,

    I am on this site almost daily for over 18 months, I have never once seen anyone belittled for their faith in God, their belief in God, the reliance on God.

    Sometimes I don't know who was more helpful in helping me thru all this. Betrayed Wives themselves, my therapist, or God or in what division.

    In fact my name Steam comes from something demonstrated to me when I was a kid or a preteen, I could not fathom just how could God also be Jesus and the Holy spirit.

    The demonstration was water in three forms--liquid water, ice and steam.

    I chose Steam as my screen name because of that because i knew I could not go through this awful pain on my own without some sort of "divine" surrounding me and in all honestly I could not remember the quote at the time "full speed ahead" of "full steam ahead"

    But Steam it is.

    ReplyDelete
  35. Glad to meet you Steam! I am happy to hear that it is safe here...especially after I have read post after post and come away feeling the compassion that is extended to all...regardless of the outcome of their marriage.

    My story: Married almost 10 years, he is 62, I am almost 61. He committed adultery many times in his first marriage it turns out, and brought heavy duty porn into ours, which I found in the first year. Fast forward past all the "marriage policing" I did...I found my husband having lunches with a female customer in the back room of his store. This was a Divine appt because I had not been in his store for two years, and low and behold, the day I do show up there she is.

    He cut off that relationship after I insisted or I file for divorce (I had had enough catching him at various things already). I went to the Lord because I did not want to have sex with him after that. I always hated it because of his transferring the lust he has for others to using my body to fantasize with...this was his sneaky way to be "spiritually safe" without actually committing physical adultery. I was so ashamed throughout the marriage that I could not be seen naked in front of him.

    The Lord said "the rain falls on the Just and the Unjust"...so that was a clear "no"...I must continue to put out. Meanwhile, my husband and I started reading the Bible 6 days a week together and discussing it daily. We are just over half way, and by the end of the year, we will have finished. Then, I caught him watching two video's of his ex wife (hottie) and wanting sex with me right after. I went back to the Lord and asked again if I could JUST STOP having sex with him. He said "there is a time for everything under the sun...a time to embrace, and a time to withhold embracing". Ecclesiastes. So that is where we are now. My husband in a separate room, but still getting along and doing our Bible reading and dinners together as if nothing is wrong.

    ReplyDelete
  36. Part 2:

    My husband has never confessed to any wrong doing except to say "I stepped over the line ONLY because it bothers YOU". He lacks empathy and moral accountability...thinks that all he has to do is confess his sins to God but NOT to me also...he thinks God will do nothing, but is certain I WOULD make him pay consequences. I would because divorce IS a viable consequence if repentance is not going to happen.

    When I first found him having a "private friendship" with that woman, I wanted to file for divorce and cut my loses. But the Lord gave me Luke Ch 13 about the Parable of the "fruitless fig tree". Basically, it is a story about a landowner that came looking for figs on his fig tree for three years and found none. He got mad and told the groundskeeper to cut the tree down. But the groundskeeper suggested fertilizing it first and waiting to the following year to see if there would be fruit. So I knew I was supposed to wait a year before making a final decision. It will be a year this Dec.

    Meanwhile, my husband is getting quite an eyeful regarding the nature of God through our studies. I am kind (no meltdowns) and I do NOT attempt to do the work of the Holy Steam (haha). I am simply waiting to see if there will be a remorseful confession of what I need to know in order to see the acceptable "fruit" of true repentance and be able to learn to trust again and relax in this marriage and be rid of the shame of his lascivious spirit. I do not tell him that I want a confession because if it does not come from his heart and unprompted by me, then it is just going to be a bunch of half truths and minimizing in order to get me back into the bed with him.

    ReplyDelete
  37. Part 3:
    I realized that when the Lord told me that I still had to continue sex after I first found about my husband's relationship with "Aimee", there was a reason for that. My husband is NOT to be refused...he would have used my refusal to justify going further with her (whatever that looks like). In the Lord's wisdom, FIRST my husband had to have a foundation of learning just WHO God is and what He loves and hates. So after that five months of reading and discussing each Chapter in the Bible, the lights are starting to come open...my husband has had his eyes open and now has a healthy fear of God that obviously he did not have prior to doing this. Once that healthy fear was firmly in place, it was time to withdraw from sex, I am confident that God has my husband "by the balls". I do not know what will happen next. But whatever it is, it will surely become evident by the end of this year. Either my husband will bolt and run (or I will), or he has the option to truly repent from the heart and confess what I already suspect. I am ready for it because I will never go back to the way things were.

    ReplyDelete
  38. I am trying to figure out how to post using my name rather than anonymous...can someone guide me? I do not know what a URL is or a Open ID...no matter what I try, I cannot seem to do it. Thanks
    Rowena

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    Replies
    1. Just want to clarify...my husband was raised by a father who was a cold blatant adulterer, open womanizer, did incest against his daughter and promoted fornication (giving my husband condoms at age 14). My husband has never known what sex was supposed to be like in light of what God created it for. Sex is simply for thrills and release...and a wife is just a "hole" to use.

      His wiring has been corrupted from the get go. He has had a very basic Biblical foundation in his past...but it did not serve him well obviously...it was just intellectual "head knowledge" rather than embracing it from his heart.
      The reason it is important that we do not have sex is because his entire corrupted "wiring" first has to be torn out and replaced by our Creator...otherwise he will continue to implement his corruption instead. The influence that his father had, along with the porn culture has utterly ruined him...and of course, I became the victim of that on many different levels (ditto for his ex wife). We have never made love. There was always perversion included...including his many attempts for anal sex and many other horrible acts. He would openly flirt with vulnerable women at his store (his way of exciting himself and seducing weak women), in an attempt to build up his excitation level in order to want sex with me (I do not fit his "profile")...I would often catch him using porn but he just became sneakier.

      The Lord is far wiser than I am. He has shown me that my husband is blind as to what is driving him, but also that withdrawing from sex was a dangerous thing for me to do UNTIL a solid foundation of understanding God was firmly in place. So even though we have not slept together for over two months now, my husband is now (on his own) avoiding watching Youtube risque video's, no longer flirting with women, avoiding customers that are "hot" (his son takes care of those customers while my husband stays in the back room of his store). But that Lascivious spirit is STILL present...this is going to take time and more work by the Holy Spirit in his heart. When my husband kisses me, he attempts to use the same style of kissing that suggests oral sex. Not just a regular kiss of love and tenderness...but a kiss that mimics his tongue in my vagina. Sorry if this is TMI. I let him give me a kiss hello, and a kiss goodnight...but he still tries to take it further from time to time, knowing full well that he is trying to seduce me when that is the LAST thing we need to do. There will be no "hysterical sex" between us as if that would solve anything. I do not talk about it at all...I will wait for my husband to be ready to do that himself... if it ever happens
      Rowena

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    2. Rowena,
      It sounds as if your husband is completely unable or unwilling to understand sex as intimacy and not simply a physical act. Given his upbringing, I'm not surprised that his ideas around sex are pretty distorted. And I completely know the feeling of being used as a stand-in for fantasy.
      It sounds as if you've got the situation as much under control for you as you can. You can't make him seek treatment (though it certainly sounds as if he needs it) but you can ensure that you remain safe, emotionally and physically. Have you made your boundaries clear in terms of what you need him to do before you'll agree to rebuild your marriage? Have you determined any sort of deadline for what you're expecting of him?
      I'm sorry you're going through this, Rowena. And glad you found us.

      Delete
  39. Thank you Elle...I am safe and my boundaries are simple. No sex from me until I KNOW what he has done, AND I feel that I can be seen naked in front of him without feeling shame. Meanwhile...while I am waiting for this, if he starts up ANY kind of relationship with another woman (presuming I find out) then I will divorce him straight away. He KNOWS this much. I may be the first person in his life who has EVER drawn a line in the sand with regards to his sexuality (because his ex wife did not know of his cheating)...and you are correct, he will NOT seek treatment because he thinks he can handle himself by himself. He lost his prior 20yr marriage due to his drinking, verbal abuse and because he made an attempt to have sex with their 17 year old daughter one night...JUST LIKE his own father did to his sister.

    There are no clear terms for rebuilding the marriage...why bother stating ANY terms for going forward when I cannot even get to square one with getting a confession from him? Our marriage never really got off the ground in terms of what marriage is supposed to mean in the first place. What we have turned out to be is a "legalized relationship" wherein I do all the work of keeping it and everything else in our lives together while he plays and denies his basic responsibilities.

    I do have my own idea of what I need to see happen. First, confession of ALL his extracurricular sexual activities during our marriage. I want to see a man "broken" and humbled by his sin...a man who is willing to not be defensive or concealing and is transparent. I do not want or need nitty gritty details. I want this to come from him UNPROMPTED by me...but rather, prompted by God instead...in other words, led by his conscience.

    Then I'd like to see him get off the computer after I go to bed at night. He stays on until 2 or 3am playing Party Poker seven days a week. He goes to work around noon...he does not have to go sooner because his son opens and runs the store. This has been going on nearly the entire marriage...prior to that, it was obsessive movie watching. The reason I want to see him set a restriction on his computer games is simple. He does this primarily to get an excitement/dopamine rush. This insatiable desire for thrills is what drives him and will cause him to easily stumble again and again when he gets frustrated or bored with life if he does not learn that simple truth...this desire for thrills spills over into his sexuality and I believe it is hard wired into it...he is like an adolescent. Getting it under control would show ME that he is aware of his own lack of personal self control and boundaries. I am not going to say a thing. The reason for this is because I have tried many times, only to have him make promises that he breaks within a week. This has to be an internal understanding between he and God...because other than that way, he will resent boundaries if they are imposed by me...and just get sneakier.

    The deadline is the end of this year. At the very least, I want to hear his confession by that time OR see him give up the on line gaming (and not start some other obsession that is designed to get thrills). I will most certainly go to the Lord and see what He wants ME to do however as I have always done. I am not presuming anything at this point...but I am poised to divorce a man such as this for my own peace of mind.

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  40. Rowena,

    You sound like one strong woman with boundaries and a plan. God has obviously bless you with common sense and more. We are here with you and many on this site understand your pain. My first husband was a Baptist preacher, who physically abused me. God saw me through that experience safe and sound through His guidance and love. The guilt I felt about leaving my first husband was tremendous but God knew how hard I tried to make the marriage work and results of the abuse. God showed me His forgiveness for me in that situation is larger than what is in a book. You heart may sink but God won't let you drown.

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  41. I feel the need to say I love how strong some of you sound as you have made your way back from and healed from such heart wrenching lives. I still feel I am on the coaster at times! I am dealing with this day at a time, while also caring for an aged mother single handed. H continues to be an open book as far as all social and text email. Doesn't matter! I still have days of doubt! Getting past all the lies is really harder than the sex he thought he needed! Our sex life never really changed while he was'under her spell'! How would I know if he will do it again? I don't but if he does, he now fully understands there is not going to ever be another second chance to get us right! I want to thank everyone here since it is your experience that has helped in my understanding in most of this mess!
    Theresa

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    1. Hi Theresa,
      I am supposing that all the lies were designed for him to have what he wanted from the OW...and at the same time, keep YOU too? If he had announced his intentions to hook up with another woman and said he did not care one nit about how you felt about it, would you have felt much better than enduring his lies? At least if he had respected you enough to have done that, you would have been able to make a clear decision about what you were willing to tolerate rather than being duped and deceived. So how do you push forward at this point?

      Well, the lies were designed to cover his shame...it is not like he did not know that what he was doing was wrong and devastating. So of course he lied over and over...his entire behavior was designed and cultivated by the devil...including the lies. Those were part of the package he bought into. He lied to himself, to you, and to God. This could easily lead you to becoming the "marriage police"...exhausting...forever checking and looking over your shoulder to see if you catch him in a new situation...or catching him at an old lie.

      I do have a suggestion for you...but I do not wish to offend you especially seeing how hurt you already are. So with that, I would first ask if you are a woman of faith? I ask that because it WILL take a basic faith in God to actually do what I would recommend. If not, please know that you are understood and loved here.

      Hugs,
      Rowena

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    2. Theresa,
      It's completely normal to have doubts. They don't vanish simply because our husbands tell us that NOW they're being honest and transparent. We need to rebuild trust, slowly, inch by inch. We need to see consistent honesty. We need to see change, including a recognition of how devastating their betrayal of us was. Once we begin to see that, it becomes easier to let go of our fear and begin to trust again. But that takes time.

      Delete
  42. Thank you so much for your encouragement and response Lynn. YES! What you said about situations being larger than what is covered in a book is so true! While I do believe in that Book, I know that the things that are written to us are supposed to be guiding principles rather than rules that are etched in stone with no wiggle room to help us navigate through foggy aberrant realities. God makes the "rules"...God can bend them for us when He sees fit too...and all without compromising Himself or us.

    Today I had a thought. Besides good old fashioned physical faithfulness, all I ever wanted from my husband is not to USE me as a "stand in" for his lusting for another woman...talk about a clever way of cheating! I wanted him to want ME when he approaches ME for sex. Not offer me "strange fire" which was kindled by some other woman. I find this to be abhorrent and the utmost of betrayal and disrespect...because he is using deceit against me while indulging himself in betrayal.

    I KNOW I am aging...as he is. But it sickens me when he lusts for women half my age AND THEN borrows my body to imagine himself screwing HER. I would prefer he just slithered off into a dark room and masturbated to get her out of his system...although I suppose God would then weigh in on even that at some point. OR, if he is "involved" with a woman, just GO to her and stay with her rather than bouncing back and forth benefiting from using both. If he never touched me again, that would make me feel far more respected than when he fills his "cup" full from lust for others before wanting to have sex with me.

    I do not expect my husband to hold me in such high esteem that he CANNOT sin against me in his thoughts, words or deeds...even God does not get THAT from His own people. I am not looking to be worshiped. That belongs to God alone. What I do want is for my husband to have enough respect for me to recognize what is in his own heart so as not to defile ME with HIS sexual sins...especially in an area that is supposed to represent the utmost in intimacy and vulnerability. I do not want a third person...or a harem between us.

    I seem to have developed gills over the years haha!

    Rowena

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    1. "I do not want a third person...or a harem between us." Amen to that, Rowena.

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  43. Rowena click on the drop down and use name url enter your name under name. You do not need to enter a url. Congrats on not smacking your husband over the head with your bible.

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  44. Rowena,
    I am a woman of faith! I feel God is the only way I have been able to stay in the marriage! H tries very hard. He feels no matter what he does it will never be enough. He is so selfish with his time! Works very hard and wants to spend his spare time with golf and his friends! Usually I want him to go do his golf. Sometimes, I want him to choose to spend that time with me. Selfish on my part!
    Theresa

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  45. Okay Theresa that is good to know! I will try to get straight to the point so as not to write a book here. Your being able to check his social media ect, while encouraging, is not really cutting it. Anyone can get another secret email/phone account and he spends all his time away from you. He seems to treat you as a commodity and acts like a single man with his time. So does mine...getting on Poker from right after dinner until 2am...then sleeping until it is time to go to work. So I have coffee alone, and I go to bed alone. We go nowhere together. He gets all his social from his many friends at work.

    This is juvenile and selfish. You are caring for your aged mother and could use a loving companion from time to time...and then he betrayed you the worse way possible on top of this. You still feel uneasy about him...wondering how he could have lived LIES and if he is still hiding more lies. Well sweetheart, you may never know all the lies...BUT GOD KNOWS AND SEES EVERYTHING...even your husbands thoughts.

    What the Lord had me do was to STOP checking and instead, TRUST Him and Him only. He will disclose to me what He wants me to know/see and then, He will guide me with what needs to be done. I am at PEACE! I cannot believe how much peace I have simply by turning everything over to Him. I am free to live my life on my own terms without checking and looking over my shoulder, asking my husband any "leading" questions, and caring about what he does with his time. God will handle him in His time. I imagine that if my husband were spending all his time away from home claiming that he is playing golf or spending time with "friends" I would be VERY suspicious about if that was entirely true. But I just say to God "YOU know the truth, YOU see all, YOU are my Rock and Fortress, and I will not fear anything because YOU love me! If you read my story, you will see that my husband does his "deeds" while AT WORK...so there really is nothing/nowhere safe if they want to be in another relationship...yes? Everyday you have to wake up and "give" your husband (including his selfishness) UP to the Lord. Everyday...and then go do what you want and need to do asking your husband for nothing. Nothing. Not his time, not his attention, not his love, no questions, no snooping. Ever. Let God be your everything. This takes purposeful focus...sometimes moment by moment. If the Lord wants to reveal something to you, then TRUST that He will. He will also tell you what to do about whatever it is that He shows you. Release your husband to Him, and just be what God wants You to be. Do not be afraid. There is nothing that your husband can take from you that you really NEED, because the Lord is right there as your Heavenly Husband, offering you His love to fill the gaps.

    I recommend you just try 40 days of simply releasing your husband over to God...not asking questions, making comments about his time or whereabouts, not snooping/checking, being kind and going about your own business, speaking to the Lord in your heart and learning to enjoy Him. See what that does for your heart. Reject any dark thoughts from the enemy straight away by telling those "voices" that the Lord sees and knows everything. Protect yourself...you can not afford to borrow more grief in your every days. If something is going on, let the Lord disclose it to you and tell you what you need to do if that happens. This is what happened to me. I walked right into my husbands early stage EA and the Lord WANTED me to find out and confront them both. I did it with grace and truth...but I also made it clear that I would divorce him if the Lord ever disclosed anything like it again to me. Then I let it all go. My husband CAN very well do it again...but if the Lord shows me (while I am going about living my usual life) then He will also show me again and what the next step is.
    Be kind and loving...and TRUST the Lord with your heart.

    Love,
    Rowena

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  46. Rowena,
    I thought I had turned my h over to God! I thought I had trust that this would get better and easier with time. God does give me strength to get up in the mornings and do the necessities of the day. My biggest problem is talking to him and he just doesn't understand what I mean. He explains he depends on no one but himself for anything he needs emotional or otherwise. I tried to explain how I feel when something triggers all the anger and doubt just when I thought I had those emotions under control! This time I went off the deep end because he wanted to play golf today after having played already on Sunday. I told him I did not think he needed to do that! It made him angry and then it all escalated from there. I don't remember all that was said. It left me drained and numb all over again!

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    1. Theresa,
      Please read again what I wrote to you okay? You are still sharing your HEART with your husband and asking him to "fill" it in various ways (as if he cares). That was a mistake. You need to forget about getting something from him that he clearly does not want to give. Only the Lord can open his eyes/heart and make him WANT to give you ANYTHING including feelings of security. Your husband does not want to hear your heart...your fears...your insecurities or affirm you. He certainly does not want you to dictate what he does with his time either...no matter how absurd. Surely you can see this? I mean really, would he have been immoral if he gave any thought to how that could have affected your heart? While he KNOWS intellectually it was wrong, he cannot find it in himself to fathom any depth of your ongoing pain...because he has very little heart to feel emotions for anyone except for himself.

      Stop talking to your husband about what you want and need or feel. He does not hear you with his heart...or plainly does not care. He seems to be lacking in EMPATHY...the ability to "feel" another persons pain...even when they are the cause of it. This makes him even MORE selfish, and causes you even more pain when you focus on that fact.

      Trusting GOD with your husband does NOT mean that things will get better within any particular time frame as far as your husband is concerned. It means that YOUR HEART will get better IN SPITE of your husband first and foremost. You MUST detach from your husband emotionally (while being kind) just enough to protect yourself until he is clearly a "safe" man to be with and share your soul with. They are just "not into us". We have to stop focusing on what our husbands do...and focus only on what WE do. We will NOT get everything we want/need from them especially when THEY are emotionally and/or morally damaged themselves. We do however, get what we need from the Lord to sustain our walk in spite of that. Our husbands are just functioning as "providers" rather than lovers of our souls. But we can be grateful for their provision (for now) while we wait, yes?

      If/when the time ever comes that the Lord reveals that your husband is fooling around again, then your relationship with the Lord will be strong enough for you to hear what He wants you to do at that time. Meanwhile, get your focus off of him and on to the Lord more. Remember that I told you that your Faith will be required of you to pull this off?

      Your husband sounds just like mine did...but something is slowly changing in him...s-l-o-w-l-y. But I still do not trust him with most of my heart, so I keep that closed to him lest he damage it. I do not tell mine what I want or think, what I need from him, or how I FEEL. If he ASKS me, I will, but even then I am careful not to get too "deep" so that it does not cause an argument. I leave my heart in God's hands...and only expose to my husband what I know is safe to expose...he is just NOT ready to hear all of the truth of the damage he has done yet. I know what is safe when my husband actually ASKS me how I feel about something or what I think. I rely totally on God to do His work on my husband's heart/mind...and I stay out of the way of that. I would like to send you a poem that the Lord gave me about this VERY thing. When I dig it up, I will try to post it here if you want it?

      Hugs,
      Rowena

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    2. Theresa,
      Rowena is making a lot of sense. You're trying to change your husband when he's made it quite clear he's not the least bit interested in changing. He wants YOU to change so he can continue to do exactly as he pleases with no regard for your fear, your pain.
      What has he done to deserve this second chance you're giving him? If you're determined to stay in the marriage, then what Rowena is suggesting is pretty much the only way you can survive emotionally. It's called The 180 and it's a way of keeping yourself emotionally detached. It's certainly no way to live long term in my estimation.
      I'm sorry Theresa. I think anyone willing to give a spouse who cheated a second chance deserves to have that treated as the gift it is. I'm so sorry your husband can't see just how lucky he is.
      But I hope you'll seek counselling in order to establish some clear boundaries yourself.

      Delete
  47. What about porn sites? My H had several affairs, physical and emotional, was cruising cheating and dating sites, viewing porn and lost his job due to one of the affairs. All happened within a year and a half, we are one year past D Day, not including details that trickled out since that day. I think he's viewing porn sites again. Am I being too uptight in thinking this is cheating too? Should I be allowing this? I've read "this is what guys do", should I loosen up, watch with him?

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  48. It is cheating too. Jesus said "If any man looks at a woman TO LUST for her, he has already committed Adultery with her in his heart".

    Well, they do more than simply lust...usually they masturbate OR they use those images to "fuel" their desire to have sex with their wife...imagining themselves with those women...but "finishing" their heart lust using their wife's body.

    This is an epidemic. Half of marriage are now ending because of the horrible effects of porn. It more often than not leads to hooking up with women from Craigs List and other sites too. Yeah, it is what guys do...and it is evil and a betrayal against their wife. God wants each man/woman to have their own spouse to satisfy their sexual desires. So what is with the outside of marriage stuff? Sin begins in the mind and heart...it is finished using the body.

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  49. Thanks for responding Rowena,, I appreciate your time. To be honest, and with utmost respect, I'm not a religious person, so I'm hoping others will respond to my questions as well.

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    1. Hi Wendy,
      I think it's completely reasonable, when someone seems to use porn within the context of cheating (a lot of cheating from the sounds of it) to expect them to eliminate it until (and if) it can be reintroduced in a healthy way.
      Is your husband in any sort of counselling? What was behind his cheating? What is behind his porn use? If he doesn't know, then he's not going to be able to stop it. Nobody does anything unless they're getting something out of it. He risked his marriage and his career...why was that risk worth taking? Or it is compulsive?
      The short answer, I think is that you are uncomfortable with his porn use. Given what he's asking you to accept with regards to his betrayal of you, it seems perfectly reasonable for you to set boundaries around what you will and will not tolerate in your marriage, especially as you heal from this. He should be falling all over himself to help you heal, not giving you a hard time for getting in the way of what he wants. That's a huge red flag.
      If you two aren't in counselling, I think it would be a very good idea. That's the best place to navigate the rebuilding of a marriage based on trust and mutual respect.

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  50. Understood Wendy. With the utmost in respect, Google "Your Brain on Porn" and read. It is not religious...just scientific and medical facts. Or you can go to many other secular sites that women post on too (while waiting for more answers here) and see the long term effects that Porn has had in their relationships. You wanted to know if it was cheating? WHO is better qualified to answer that question than yourself? Follow your gut and your heart. Read the article...I think it is in a Covenant Eyes link.

    I am sure that if you check back that others will answer you. It takes a little while before comments show up due to screening.

    Big Hugs to you Wendy

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    1. Rowena,
      You're an amazing woman. So glad you found us...and we found you.

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    2. Blushing....thank you!

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  51. Wendy I knew walking in that my H was a porn consumer from day one. I knew that. I also know that according to survey's the vast majority are. However, that does not mean that you have to accept it.
    I don't like it--I don't hate it,(well, i hate some of it) basically I don't watch it.
    My H has a a huge collection on his computer and only some of it REALLY sets me off. In fact one of our biggest arguments in a long time stemmed from it, just recently--- only because he had "networked" it and watched some on MY laptop which is just not ok with me. That was just a slap in the face. That is MY stuff and I dont want THAT stuff on it. It pissed me off to no end really. I have to fight my battles. For me, it's not watching it on my computer and I don't want to find out that he's revving up for me by watching it beforehand. I will never know for sure that he does or does not, but I don't want to see it. That is my boundary--Your's might be different and you never know-- your husband might have a problem. His porn use certainly accelerated quickly.
    So for me MOST porn itself is not a big enough battle for me to fight--where and when it's watched IS. You have to decide what is right for you. and if that means no porn, then fine--no porn.

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    1. Ahh Steam. Once I found out (repeatedly) that my husband could not "want" me without first "revving" himself up first with porn, flirting or lust for other women...THAT was a game changer for me. Elle also said that being a "stand in" was not acceptable for her either. It did not take long for me to realize what was happening in my relationship, but I did not know going into it that he did porn. I just felt the "effects"...the emotional disconnect and the perversions he tried to use like anal sex. During the first year of marriage, I found the porn and then I understood why.
      Every time he approached me for sex after that, I wondered WHY...was it ME he wanted...or was he just "finishing" himself by using me? I learned to dread having sex with him. I kept putting out...but never initiated it. His "wiring" is so messed up that it was a complete turn off. When he gave up the porn, he started using risque YouTube videos, flirting and live women to get his "pre-sex" thrills. I do not know if this last woman I found him with evolved into more than an EA and lusting. What I DO know is that he would act very different in bed with me once he started a relationship with her. She had huge breast...and mine are small. She had naturally protruding nipples (they show through her clothes)...mine needed stimulation in order to protrude. So my husband started messing with my nipples every Saturday when he came home to get them to "stand out"...which was the day of the week that he had her for lunches in the back room of his store. He never touched my breasts the entire marriage before he met her. I connected the dots once I finally met her. It all made sense...he clearly was not "present" with who I am.

      Blessings!

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    2. I think is like alcohol. Some people can enjoy it occasionally while for others it triggers a cascade that leads to real problems. My husband discovered that porn was unhealthy for him. He lost any real understanding of an intimate partner as a human being. They became props in his fantasy. And it absolutely led to more daring in real life. He can clearly see now that it took him to a really dark place where he, frankly, became disgusted with himself.
      I've never been a fan of porn mostly because I feel it objectifies and exploits women. I know there's feminist porn out there but feel no need to check it out. Life is exciting enough, thanks. :)

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  52. Thanks for these insights! I had no idea that I was for the most part already doing the 180 for the past six or seven months. I began walking with my lab, lost weight as a result. Now have all new clothes. I do keep busy with gardening, I water color paint, read the bible, pray.. I have always been independent for the most part of our marriage. I ran my own business for 12 years. H has been as honest as he can about the affair. He continues to answer questions when I ask. I am the one that can be angry about his desire to play golf and turn it into a shouting match that just 'shuts him down' his words. Before I never had these types of outbursts. Our marriage was great. We could discuss anything. We could agree to disagree and move on. I am the one that uses my anger in the wrong time and place to make him feel bad about what he chose to do. I am working on self control! He didn't play golf so I know he understood that was important to me. I am the selfish one because I need more time than he has to give. He tries very hard to spend quality time with me. He has a hard time with words. I have expressed a desire for counseling but both of us are hesitant. Allowing a stranger into our life isn't what we want at this point. I think what I need is what I have been finding within this blog. Seeing that I have been feeling what you all have described makes me feel better about myself. Time is helping. I will continue with 180. I will use patience. I will get stronger! Today is going to be a good day!

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    1. Good for you Theresa! I did not know that it was called doing a "180". The only thing you need to do then, is put down the bad thoughts that come as arrows against you.

      Maybe you can give your husband a specific "heads up" for time you want to spend with him so that it does not come to him as a surprise? Since my husband gets Wed off as do I, if I wanted to do something with him together, I would ask him a week in advance if he had anything already committed to.

      Do you feel threatened when he wants to play golf more often...or is it simply because you want to spend quality time with him? I would think that he should give you at least as much time as he gives to friends/golf. Do you think that is unreasonable?

      Question: How long ago was Dday? What is your story regarding that?

      Hugs

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  53. I learned of the affair last October but I consider April 1 as that day she went to jail and had to stop all contact with me and h. She spent six months doing the trickle truth dance to make it as painful as she could. She was very bitter for the last year of the relationship as he had told her then it had to stop. She would not stop contacting him begging for one more face to face meeting! She was using social media to send me text and instant messages while he was out of town working. I blocked her so she texted him and threatened that Facebook was not the only way to 'give T more truth'. H became afraid she had become unstable so he contacted our local police. The police called her told her to stop contact. She stopped for about 2 weeks near Christmas. She started back in New Year's Day and kept the constant daily calls texts to h. In March he filed harrasment charges as some of her texts were nasty. She went to jail for 24 hours on April 1. Since then no contact. Yes Rowena, I do want the quality time as I feel cheated by how much time he spent with her trying to get her not to share her truth! He has been trying. He has spent 2 days with me this week for lunch. I have been a few times with him to play golf. He has offered to teach me to play. I think if I learn I may not be as jealous of his desire to play with the guys. It just triggered me this week that he was to play again when he had only played three days previous. I flew Ibiza a rage that lasted several hours leaving both of us exhausted. I apologized for my outburst and we have promised each other to walk away before we get to a shouting match! Baby steps is how this feels and I just want it to all be over! The triggers that is!

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  54. I think one of the most baffling thing about men is how they can 'compartmentalize" just about everything. It's true--MOST of the affairs they will eventually admit to were NOT about us and they really did keep us in one compartment and "them" in another. The same I am sure can be true for porn. It may have nothing, nothing at all to do with us and everything to do with their wiring--some people are just rewrired differently and some are just all sorts of screwed up in the wire department. Lord knows-- depicting others having sex-- it's been documented since the beginning of man--in all sorts of history and all sorts of forms--hieroglyphics, the Egyptians the Greeks, the Maya have it in all sorts of fetish styles. IT's in in mosaic forms and it's all over a ton of artwork (anyone see the original kama-sutra illustrations?) It progressed of course. If i remember correctly one of the first things filmed after the invention of "motion pictures" was, of all things--porn. and What was once available only by mail order (back of magazines and newspapers) arriving in plain wrapped packages-- is now IMMEDIATE via the internet. It's there, right there and so is everything else, instant sex, instant meet ups, websites URGING you to cheat.-It's all so excessive. and there really is nothing good about anything that excessive, especially when coupled with someone a bit obsessive. Not all men are slaves to their testosterone, but when they are? Nothing happy or healthy about that..

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    1. Steam,
      Yes! They REALLY do compartmentalize. HIMSELF is a master at compartments. 20 years. Perhaps longer.

      Delete
  55. Once again I thought I posted a response yesterday but have not seen it. October of last year is when the ow sent her first text messages to me. H was out of town. She spent several hours telling me about how they 'fell in love' . I told her she was 'one of many', and that only when my h told me it was love and not lust, would I believe it. When h came home, we spent many hours with him explaining how this woman had turned him into a liar and a cheat. He was only looking for companionship and cheap no strings sex. She fell in love! I should explain that when this affair started, h and I were living in separate houses due to his job and I was helping our daughter through a messy divorce and child custody. This is not an excuse for his choices just why it was so easy for him to lead a double life.

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  56. Post 2
    When she sent her truth my way, h said he was so relieved that it was finally over! He thought that would be the end of her threats to keep him with her or else she tells me truth. H sent texts to her for her to stop contact and she spent the next 6 months sending trickle truths that usually were already disclosed to me by h. In December, h contacted the police and they called her and told her to stop all contact. She stopped for a couple of weeks for Christmas but started out with happy new year text! Then the constant calls and text telling him how much she missed him and loved him. During this time, h was out of state for work Monday to Friday! She just needed to see him one more time. He only replied to her many texts with leave us alone! Her texts became threatening when I blocked her number, she told him Facebook is not the only way she can give T the truth! H became afraid she had become unstable. He filed charges for harrasment and she was arrested on April 1 of this year. Once the judge ordered no contact, she stopped texting and calling. She did drive slowly by our house several times and we were told as long as she does not stop and get into our yard, it was not illegal for her. She has even sent one text if he met her one more time so he could see the 'truth' in his eyes that she was 'one of many'. I had convinced her that he had many affairs. Not true but it felt good to me that since their relationship was based on lies and deceit, it was the lie I gave her that 'hurt her so much, that she was not special'. H was so relieved that it was over. For him, the affair was only for the first couple months exciting and then reality of what he had done. In September of 2014, h moved me into our house that is close to my mother. When we were living in separate houses, nothing changed in our relationship that I could sense. I was so happy that the house we had bought for his job was renovated and I could move in with him! We had a great time reconnecting with each other! He thought moving me in would show ow it really was over and she would leave us alone and I 'would never have to know'. Ow would leave him alone for a few weeks but the she could always convince him to have lunch and he sensed she wanted too tell me truths! In May of last year, he took her out of town on a business trip again to shut her up. Had sex again with her and then spent the drive back telling her it was over! She left him alone for a few months but again she convinced him to lunch a couple of times and over to her apartment to'fix her cable'. When she tried to kiss and hug him, he again rejected her and told her it was over. Two weeks after that she sent me the truth text. The affair hurt me deeply but the knowledge that he traveled with her after I moved in is more painful. The fact that it took six extra months to get her to stop contact was very painful. H and I have discussed this more than once. He admits what a coward he was. Now fast forward to this weeks crazy outburst from me about golf. Just when I feel like I am getting better, something triggers all the anger and pain and I just lose control and want him to hurt as much as I do! I am taking the advice I see here and some days are better than others. I have told him I may need counseling for my anger. Time will tell.

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    1. It appears that his affair was drawn out much longer after he wanted to leave it because he was afraid of being exposed and she was a threat to that. He could not find a way to make it go away without confessing and risking losing you. He felt like a trapped animal. But from what you say, your anger is now the bigger problem between the two of you since he now doing all he is capable of doing to make amends. The triggers are mostly because of the details that were disclosed...what we demanded to know. This is the problem that "knowing" too much creates. I have learned a lot from reading what other women have gone through. I think it may be better to not know any details such as places, times, comparisons (sexual or looks), anything at all that would paint a picture that would make me feel like I could never measure up to the excitement he had enjoyed. It is sufficient to know name(s), how long it lasted, used protection or not, and proof that it is over. Any more detail than that could result in me doing the comparison game...that I do not deserve. I don't want "trickle truth" especially about things that are simply curiosity and unnecessary to know.

      The anger...been there, done that too many times. I admit that when I was in the midst of it, I felt like two different persons...the "me" that was saying to myself while spiraling out of control, "what ARE you doing...you are WAY out of control and this is destructive to both of you". Then the other "me" that was taken over by the spirit of rage, even to the point of spewing the most vile language and turning so red that I could barely breathe throwing a table through the wall, grabbing a gun ect. I felt like I was watching someone else. Whew! Was all that really going to help either of us? I felt like a trapped animal that came busting out like a viscous foaming monster.

      What did I do? I learned to run to another room to be alone the moment I felt my heart start to race and my anger start to rise...or if it was nice outside, went there. It took several hours just to calm down...but that was STILL not long enough to bring up the topic again. No, I could not trust myself to be calm or respectful until an ENTIRE DAY had gone by. By then, I would be able to sort what was REALLY necessary to say vs what I could just keep to myself. I learned not to present him with anything that could not be settled with a solution...not to vent just to vent. If I wanted something practical, then to say what I wanted and why, nothing more. Rinse, repeat. This took a couple years to master because triggers do blindside us at the most unexpected moments...so I learned to identify my triggers and avoid them at all cost...or "run" to be alone when they did come up.

      Theresa, you might ask him to take an inventory of what he wants to do or where he wants to go and write it on a calendar for each upcoming month. That way, you have a visual of what to expect each week (so does he)...and he can learn to plan and stick to his word for your sake. This will eliminate THAT trigger. Ask him to include time spent with you too. I think it is great idea for you to take up golf with him...but only if YOU like it too. It is seasonal, so maybe think of other things to do off season also.
      Can you identify other triggers?

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    2. Theresa
      I think Rowena's idea of having a visual calendar of what he wants to do and when is a great one. Would give you respite from feeling blind-sided by a sudden announcement that he's made plans.
      Re. your story: I wonder if you have trouble with your anger. I don't think it surprises any of us that you'd be absolutely furious about what he's done. He betrayed you! He kept it going! Of course you're angry. Behind that, of course, is deep deep hurt and, probably, fear that it could happen again.
      I would strongly urge you to seek counselling to help you through this. There's a lot of emotions to unpack and work through. A counsellor can support you.
      Theresa,I hope you'll cut yourself some slack. You've been through hell.

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  57. Oh how i wish this would just end. I'm so tired of being in this pit. The bottom of this pit. I've worked hard to move past this...it's been 19 months. I was beginning to see some light. He was not helping much, always blaming me for not moving on for always bringing it up when I couldn't find him or when the OW was posting things about how hard relationships are but she's sticking it out...I know I should not read her page but I keep thinking if it was over she would stop posting these crazy veiled relationship posts. If it was finished wouldn't she stop the post directed at him??? So I plug on until last week when her number shows up on his phone ...on his birthday. It was like the flood gates opened and I got gutted again....but this time it was my fault for giving him a second chance for believing his s*** like l believed for twenty two years. I am so exhausted so worn so numb. I'm so stupid. I'm financially stuck, lost my job, have to care for my dying parent. I can't leave until my dad passes and I can get a jib again.I guess I'm just venting and I'm grateful I have a place to vent. My best friend is sick of the story by now. I'm alone out here except for this site. Thanks for listening. PS I truly was a pulled together women before this...I had a great job,volunteered, added to my realities lives was happy...I wasn't this stick skinny,dead eyed, obsessing bitter angry nutcase that I have become. Does it ever ever end?

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    1. So Anonymous, are you intending to leave him after your parent passes away? Does your parent live with you? Do you have children at home? If not, can you move into your parents house to care for him/her and get some space to think/breathe apart from cheater? Are you afraid that if you did that, then he'd continue cheating even more? Well, if he still is then staying with him is not working to stop him anyway, so protect yourself if you intend to leave him. STOP having sex with him because first, he does not deserve to be "double dipping"...and second, because he could bring you a disease.

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    2. Anonymous,
      Trust me, we KNOW you were a productive "pulled together" woman before this. And we know how this distorts that until we barely recognize ourselves.
      You will be that woman again.
      Until the affair is well and truly over and you and your husband are able to discuss it openly, it will fester and keep you crazy. Do you think it's still going on? Or is this the case of a crazy, determined OW who simply won't let it go?
      Figure out what you're dealing with because that will determine your next steps. In the meantime, I would urge you to get to a lawyer and figure out what a separation or divorce would mean for you financially. It doesn't mean you have to go through with it...but you might be pleasantly surprised. Nobody should put up with a marriage in which a partner continues to cheat.
      And please, vent away. I'm sorry your friend can't or won't listen any more. None of us is doing this to be difficult...we're just desperate for comfort and support.

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  58. Theresa, this sounds like a terrible mess. I really hear that this woman is a train-wreck but are you holding the right person responsible? He has alot to answer for. The version of taking her out of town on a trip to shut her up is shady. You are rightfully in a rage and angry. Hopefully with help processing it, you can hold him responsible for his behavior. You sound like you are focusing on yourself, which is terrific, but has he really looked at his behavior and gotten to the bottom of it? Your anger may be surfacing because you aren't really getting from him what you really need--for him to answer for his terribly messed up decisions.

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  59. 2 years since DD. 8 year affair. I have been seeking individual counseling and my H and I have been going to marriage counseling. I often feel like the marriage counseling is not useful. We often talk about children, work, anything except the affair. This is our second counselor. The first one made me feel like I had to share in the blame for the affair. I do accept responsibility for problems in my marriage, but DO NOT assume ANY responsibility for the choices my H made. I don't necessarily want to change counselors, but will if I need to. I wonder if it's me, 2 counselors and I'm not satisfied. My idea of what a counselor does it to ask the right questions and direct the conversation into a therapeutic discussion. I don't know really know what to ask for from my counselor to feel like were making progress. There is an elephant it the room (the affair) and it isn't being talked about. Any suggestions? Has anyone had a fantastic counselors and did you notice some specific qualities and or techniques they used. TIA

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    1. Anonymous,
      Oh my goodness, I could have written your letter. We went through two marriage counsellors (with long breaks in between where it felt hopeless) before we hit upon the counsellor we have now who's wonderful.
      Even then though I've had to make it clear that we are there to work through the affair and the aftermath. If a counsellor isn't very assertive and a husband is a master of deflection and changing the subject then you can find yourself, week after week, talking about relatively benign things and ignoring the elephant. Tell the counsellor that you need to talk about the affair in therapy -- that you're feeling silenced. If he/she doesn't begin to address it, then it's time to find another counsellor. It's frustrating but there's little point in spending money if you're not getting what you're after.
      As for blaming you for the affair, that's utter bullshit. And any good counsellor won't hold you accountable for your spouse's choice to cheat. I absolutely support the notion that we're all accountable for the role we've played in a marriage, but the choice to cheat?? That's on the cheater.
      Figure out what it is you need. For me, I needed to hear my husband acknowledge that his affair was like a nuclear bomb in our marriage. I acknowledge that there were problems and that I brought my own baggage into our marriage. But I didn't cheat. And that deception triggered all sorts of pain in me that has taken years to heal. As soon as we were able to speak openly about the affair and how it did (or didn't) impact the marriage, my need to talk about it actually decreased. Once it's out in the open, it loses its power because we control it rather than it controlling us.
      Talk this over with your counsellor and ask what his/her experience is with affairs. What books has he read? What is his philosophy around it? You're purchasing a service -- you have every right to ensure a good fit.
      You might also want to read this post, that I asked our counsellor to write:
      http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2014/02/betrayal-survival-guide-how-to-find.html
      Or this one by fellow BWC member Merilee Lane: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2015/05/guest-post-everything-your-therapist.html

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  60. MBS
    H knows that out of town trip is one of my sore places. He admits to not handling the ow the right way as if there was one. That happened over a year ago and was his last physical contact with her. He maintained phone contact for the following six months because he did not know how else to silence her. I believe his story given the fact that her texts to him after she shared her truth pretty much said the same things. The fact that it took six more months until he contacted police also is a sore spot! He waited till he had enough evidence to print out for the police. She even sent one text asking for one more meet up and then he could get a restraining order. She was joking of course, but that was 2 weeks and then the police picked her up on April fools day! I love the irony! She was forced to accept what he had been telling her. Now he is left trying to make up for all this hurt! I am left trying to process all this mess and keep my sanity. This is sometimes easier said than done!

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  61. Theresa. About you hurting her and your husband telling you that. Oy! My h was also upset he had hurt "both" of us,,,(she did not know I even existed. ) I say who gives a crap if shewas hurt! She signed herself up for it. Granted my hS whire was clueless but if she's signing up to have sex for money she too was signing on the dotted line for pain. I honestly wish few people harm, i felt for her too for about five minutes. I can't help it I am a woman she was a stupid clueless girl. But how my h could equate us with the same level of pain? Spare me !!!I
    I also was the anger QUEEN. About two months after d day my h told me, when I asked if his whore ever spent the night, he said no. One of the reasons? He was traveling with old old little ancient dog snd she didn't like the dog. I was FURIOUS that she had a) met my dog and b) didn't like my dog.
    I threw a brush at my h from about 20 feet away. Now to me? Not a big deal. But to the therapist? Big anger deal. Thing is I was never an angry person before. So getting back to the real me was fairly simple. At least compared to everything else happening. But things still set me off.
    And her phone numer in his birthday? Why shouldn't you be angry? Why does he not block her? It's simple. What's he getting out if this by allowing this to go on?

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    1. Steam,
      The fact that she sent texts saying 'meet me! We all three are hurting bring T with you I don't care', then it still was 2-3 months with her in control, or so it seemed to me. I could not wrap my head around the fact that if he had wanted out of the relationship that long, why the hell wasn't he saying hurtful thing to her to get rid of her! Then I came to realize it did not matter what he said, she was nuts! The policeman said the same thing given how many she sent as well as what she sent. These are the parts of the mess that trigger my anger and as it was happening I thought I would lose my mind. I am learning to deal with this anger. I know my h loves me, his selfish behavior continues to hit me from time to time. Reading this blog has given me hope!

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    2. Theresa,
      I eventually had to decide that I was likely never going to "understand" the mindset of my husband. It didn't make sense. None of it. It's akin to a mental illness. People can explain what it feels like to be living in this bizarre world where up is down but we can't really imagine making the same choices. At a certain point, I think we have to accept that it's not logical and trying to apply logic is a waste of time.

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  62. My husband had an affair 2.5yrs ago with a co-worker that reported to him. It had been going on for 3 months before I discovered it. He said that she meant nothing at all to him and that he loved me very much. We went to marriage counseling. We both feel that we are closer than we have ever been in our relationship and have been quite happy until the other day. You see, this OW still works in the same facility as my husband and still reports directly to him. There was nothing that I could do about it at the time out of fear that my husband would loose his job. I couldn't even tell her husband (although she says SHE did???) because I was afraid of him going to my husband's boss and getting him fired. I set lots of ground rules such as no texting between them, only work phone and email only to be used when absolutely necessary, and no physical meetings EVER! I tried to get my husband to hand that department over to someone else. He tried, but noone wanted to take it. So, this is the situation that I have been stuck in. I check up on my husband from time to time and have found nothing that he is doing wrong until the other day. I discovered that her cell # was back in his phone after I had deleted it and had given him strict instructions that he could only call her on the work phone if a call was necessary. I confronted him and he said that if he had to call it had to be on her cell # because she wasn't always in the ofc....which is true. So, I checked his phone bill and I found multiple text msgs from her on his phone. I went into a fit of rage, screaming at him, calling him terrible names. I even called her with some angry words. They both strongly denied texting each other. As it turns out, someone else from work had sent a group msg out that included her. When she responded to the group message it showed up on his phone bill exactly like the other coworkers that responded in the group message. I just flipped my switch so fast, going from 0-120 at the snap of a finger. Does this happen to anyone else? Does anyone know what causes this, how long it may last, and what I can do to help myself so that I don't look like the crazy person? My husband thinks that I should be well over this since it has been 2.5yrs. I keep telling him that it would be a lot easier if he wasn't still working with her. Thanks for your help.

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    1. Um. You are 100% right. It would be alot easier if he wasnt still working with her. Don't know if I could stop myself from going batshit if they still worked together AND her phone number showed up on his phone. I know I couldn't stop myself. And NO, you should not be well over this 2.5 years later.
      So, why hasn't he just looked for a new job?

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    2. H'mmm...I was sure I responded to this. Not sure where it went.
      Our brain has two parts (well, lots of parts but for the sake of simplicity, let's stick to two main parts) -- emotional and logical. Our logical brain sorts through the information we have, thinks about it and comes to a logical conclusion. Our emotional brain, which is governed by our more primitive part, reacts without being logical. Given what you've gone through, it's completely understandable that you reacted from the emotional part of your brain. Even if your logical brain was involved, it might have reached the same conclusion: DANGER. DANGER.
      I'm with MBS. Has he looked for a new job? Why are you being asked to accept this really difficult situation? Every day, he walks back into the situation where he has access to her, and her to him. Makes "no contact", which is so important for healing, impossible.
      So...short answer: Yes, this happens to all of us and we don't necessarily have to deal with the emotional minefield that you do. You are not crazy. You likely need more transparency from him so that you're not blindsided by contact with her.
      What's more...2.5 years might seem like an eternity but it's not so long in terms of healing.

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  63. Hi Elle

    Well I have have ended the first phase of my marriage , last week I gave my wife the half payment of the sale of my business , handed her a cheque and and the final copy of the sale documents . It felt really strange , for the first time in the last 12 years since my wife's affair I felt that I had control of my life , It was like I have evicted her affair partner at last. In some strange way I felt guilty to have that much power over my wife , I feel like I am standing over a frightened dog . I know it is just me taking some the power she has had back but I know from how she reacted she realized for the first time in the last 12 years she has no control over me any more and she is terrified . She is wanting us to change , maybe get relationship counseling , now she is willing to do anything to try and stop me selling my home

    I have never expressed any real anger towards my unfaithful wife even after my D Day I didn't loose my temper , nor have I ever abused her in any way but now she knows that on any given day I might sell our home and she has no control over it , having this much control is scary for me and I might sell my home out of spite

    That is something I'm really struggling with , I purchased this house before my wife and I meet and have lived in it for 34 years and even thought we live in a small court I have had several neighbors all that time , I have seen a lot of their children grow up , get married and many of us have grown old together and I feel like I am throwing all that away . It feels so free to be retired , without all the stress of working day and night , I play golf once a week when ever I feel like it , go out when ever I feel like it . I have even started an on line course at one of our universities in a subject that has interested me all my life . My God , I wish I had found a site like yours 12 years ago because in so many ways I have wasted the last 12 years because I worked largely to get away from her . Well we can't look back we have to look forward

    Thank you again

    Alan

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    1. Alan,
      I am so happy for you. But please know that even positive change is...change. And change is scary. You're a smart man to check your motives in terms of what you want to do going forward. I suspect that, for so many years, your wants and your pain have been intertwined. And though you emotionally divorced your wife a long time ago, she's still been a huge part of your day-to-day life.
      It's also clear how compassionate you are. I get the sense that you're not taking any pleasure out of putting her in a position where she's forced to accept the consequences of her own choices. But again, I'll remind you, your job is to take care of you, to treat yourself with respect and honour your wants and needs. She long ago decided to disrespect you. That doesn't mean you should delight in her pain...it just means that I don't want it to become more important than your future. Leaving a home is a big step. But ask yourself: Is it serving you right now? You can still relish those memories without living in them.
      Alan, you have a new life in front of you and we're all so excited for you. I hope it's filled with the joy and the peace that you deserve. And I hope you'll continue to update us on how you're doing.

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  64. Alan,
    I am so so so so happy for you. I haven't posted in a while, but I read everyone's stories and updates. I have to ask, would it be easier to buy her out of the house? Or maybe the fresh start in a new place will release you even further. A new place for a new chapter in your life. Fulfill your happiness. No one else will do it for you. I have had to realize that for myself as well.

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  65. Alan (or is it Ross?)...anyway, did you file for divorce yet? If not, has it occurred to you that perhaps you should BEFORE you start handing over more money to her? Giving her half the money from your business sale without having a marital settlement agreement in place FIRST, and then giving her half the proceeds from the house too without the marital settlement agreement in place, "might" create a problem depending on the laws there. She could simply spend it away and then claim it was a "gift" and go for what you have left during a divorce. I have not followed your situation because you seem to post as two different people (?)...and I have some recollection of you from a different site as well (though I don't remember which one).

    That said, without a marital settlement agreement already in place, get some legal advice and see if you are doing nothing more than giving "unsecured" money away to your "still" WIFE if you have not filed yet.

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  66. Hi Rowena

    Sorry for the confusion , my 2 christian names are Alan Ross ,in my family I have always been know as Ross because my mother always called me Ross because of a family disagreement whereas at work because of dealing with Government departments I have always been known as Alan as it is my first name .

    When I gave my wife the money and documents I also got her to sign a document from my lawyer that states that this is part of our divorce settlement as and when it is finalized .

    Alan

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  67. I am almost 2 years out now. I was doing great for the past few months but all of a sudden this week feeling triggered. Last night I started asking my husband questions about the 1st sexual affair which was 10 years ago so he doesn't remember very much. July 1 is an important date as I found out last year that while I was at work that day 10 years ago he took off invited her to OUR house, they went skinny dipping in OUR pool & had sex in OUR basement on OUR sofa. But I knew all this last year & wasn't triggered July 1 this year because we went on vacation with the kids & had a great time. The affairs didn't come up once.

    Last few days I'm feeling sad & angry again. He asked me what's up. I said I don't know. I felt great for a long time but now am thinking about the affairs a lot again. I didn't know why. I said this site often says u can be triggered by something in ur subconscious at which point he said he knows why I'm triggered but doesn't want to make it worse by reminding me. So u looked it up in my phone (over the past 2 years when I find out dates of different events I put them in my phone). I think now is around the time of the second sexual affair partners birthday for whom he bought a couples massage. At least now I know why I feel this way.

    Just like going on vacation beginning of July gave me new positive memories I told him I am looking forward to a great weekend this weekend doing stuff together & with the kids to counteract whatever is going on in my brain this week.

    Triggers stink.

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    1. Yep, they do stink. But sometimes they allow to process what we know a little more deeply until they lose their sting. We're reminded how far we've come, even if it means having to remember just how painful all that was. I hope your weekend is great and that it does pull you back into the now.

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  68. A year and a half ago I caught my H in an affair with a woman he works with (he still works with her). I went through the whole, why aren't I good enough and what did I do wrong and needing to prove to him that I was worthy of him being with me. And it was all BS. Only after finding out about his porn addiction and repeatedly 'catching' him and having our marriage counsellor address the issue have I finally realized that there isn't anything wrong with me. HE has issues, and he is making a real effort to deal with those issues in a productive manner. He is remorseful. He is ashamed of himself. And he has always taken full responsibility for his affair. I initially stayed because I couldn't imagine my life without him, I chalk that up to momentary insanity. Later, when I was able to think a little more rationally, I stayed because of our kids. But lately the more I'm around him, the more I keep thinking to myself 'is this really how I want to spent the rest of my life?' Our MC is of the belief that everything is forgivable. But how many times should you be asked to forgive the same thing, or variations of it before you have to walk away or just become completely numb? And even if I do get to a point where I can forgive him, how I am supposed to live with someone that I don't trust? I deserve better and he's trying to give me better, but only in the last few months. I'm just not sure anymore if I want better with him. He's hurt me and lied to me so many times that I keep him at a distance now. I don't want to get too close because I don't want to go through anymore pain or disappointment. I'm not sure how to move forward with this. I feel lost. Anybody else ever feel like this?

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    1. I get you. I do that to myself too. I'm a strong independent woman. Why am I staying? Am I damaged to the point that I think this is my only option? These are feelings of pride (said my counselor) and she is right in my case. I worry what my kids will think of me or lose respect for me or from people or that it will happen again and I was wrong or what if my daughters marry a guy that does the same to them?

      It has been 2 years next month (Dday anniversary is a definite trigger). My H has been great and loving and we are closer than we have ever been. We have been married 20 years. The other day I saw a pic of us taken about a week before our DD. We looked sooo happy and we were having fun, but what I didn't know in that pic at the time was that he was carrying on with an old HS "friend". That picture now is an instant reminder of how I was fooled into thinking "we" were happy and how nothing in our past is as it seemed. So much damage. Trust me, working it out is the hard road and don't let anyone tell you differently. If he treats you like you are worth the world then talk to him about the trust issue. He needs to know and understand that you are terrified AND he needs to understand, respect and give you security so you feel your heart is safe with him. There is no time limit. H's don't seem to understand the damage. To them it was nothing, but a fantasy or a good time, but to us it was putting our heart in a blender and I can't understand why they don't see it that way.

      Every trigger is like a battle between your irrational heart and your rational logic. Only you can decide what is worth letting go of. Your happiness is key. Trust is very difficult to rebuild. It is possible and this is forgiveable, but it will not happen overnight and you can choose anytime you want to make your choice to leave. You are not weak for staying. You are strong for seeing if there is a reason to forgive. If that reason does not come then you will find that out with a clean heart and conscience because you tried.

      I wish the best for you. I hope this helps.

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    2. Anonymous,
      Nobody has to stay in a marriage that feels empty. Doesn't matter how much he's done to make amends. Doesn't matter how much he now realizes he loves you. If you're done, then you're done. It's one of the reasons that I think it's important to wait until the dust has settled so that you can really make a choice, instead of just reacting. What would your life be without him in it? Does that seem preferable? If so, then there's your answer. If it's about avoiding pain, know that the pain does subside. But absence of pain isn't enough to create a marriage worth saving. If you haven't rebuild a marriage based on honesty and trust and respect, then there isn't a marriage worth protecting.
      It's always your choice. And even the right choice isn't necessarily the easy one.

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    3. I don't think we are ever asked to forgive if the bad behavior is still going on. Forgiveness is only possible when there is repentance. Repent literally means to turn around 180 degrees and walk in the other direction. When we see for ourselves, and our community sees for themselves, that the guilty party is walking away from the behavior in the opposite direction, putting distance between him/herself and the injurious behavior, only then can forgiveness be expected. When we see the repentance, it should give us some relief, even joy, to forgive. My opinion, for what it's worth.

      EvenNow

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  69. I don't know where to post an original post, so I am posting here on this thread of previous posts, and comments. "Feeling stuck" is exactly how I feel. I don't have the time at this immediate moment to tell my whole story... maybe another day. Plain and simple... it's been 5 years, and I am still so sad inside. I can't stand to be with my husband intimately. Not even a hug or a kiss, because all I can think about is my husband and that other woman. All I see in my head is him hugging her... or kissing her... or laying in bed with her. I wonder how she made him feel, and I wonder if I will ever be able to make him feel like she did. It was a very short lived period in our lives... his betrayal, but it doesn't make it any easier to trust. He has been a loving husband, by all accounts, and those looking in from the outside would most likely tell me that he loves me, but he never followed through with all of the things he said he would. The counseling. The renewed vows. He consumes himself with his job, and his kids, and his politics, and his fantasy football, and his financial status, and his stupid dog, and all I have asked is that he prove to me that he is sorry, and that he loves me, and that I can trust that she never meant anything to him, by putting a little bit of time and effort into this marriage by following through with all of those things he said he would do. I have felt in limbo for so long, and I have to question myself if I am asking too much. I have gone to counseling on my own, but that didn't last long because she was just too damn happy for me, and she wasn't getting it. I joined a support group, which has been a positive, but it's not the fix that I have needed. He is a happy go lucky guy, who just seems to think life goes on merrily, as long as we don't ever talk about it. I want to talk about it too much, and I wonder if we would have seeked some third party intervention, would I be in a better place. Would I be able to shut off my head, and keep my mouth shut. Would I be able to trust. Would I be able to love him like I want to love him, without all of those sickening images in my head. Would I not be so bothered by all of his extracurricular interests. He seems to think there is no need at this point. Time has passed. I need to trust him. I need to do this, and I need to do that. Just like I was the one who needed to change and be a good wife for him when he came home. That he would have never cheated, had I just loved him. It was all up to me to fix this mess. I want to love him, but I can't bring myself to do it. He told me today, that he doesn't show me affection anymore, because he doesn't like me getting all upset and crying, and thinking about him loving her. He says he never loved her. I'm not so sure. My question to him would be this... "do either one of us really want to continue doing this? Do either one of us really want to live the rest of our lives, avoiding intimacy?" I don't know what to do. We have been married 29 years.. this weekend. I don't even know what to celebrate anymore.

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    1. Jo, I have been exactly where you are. It's excruciating. But let's start with this: You want a marriage in which you feel valued and loved and like a true partner. That's not asking "too much". You want to be able to talk about the worst pain of your life with your spouse, to hear how sorry he is for the pain he caused you, to promise you that he will cherish this second chance you're giving him -- that's not asking "too much". The only person asking for "too much" is him. He wants to be able to cheat on you, to share what he had promised to share only with you with some other woman that he says he didn't even love, and then to be able to come home and have you perhaps shed a few tears and then be over it so you can both move on with your lives. What the hell is that about?
      Betrayal is what psychologists call a trust violation and it's one of the most damaging emotional injuries we can sustain. It tells us our world isn't safe. It tells us our judgement is impaired. The only way to heal from it is to tell our stories, to find support from those who can acknowledge just how excruciating it is, to have our pain validated. There is simply no other way through this.
      Of course you're stuck after five years because you've had to swallow your pain. You're choking on it.
      The thing is...you're the sane one. It's insanity to ask someone to pretend they're not hurting when they are. HE's the one who cheated, not you. This was HIS choice, not yours. It's like running over someone in your car and then getting annoyed with them for pointing out that their leg is broken.
      No. You need to make it clear that the only way out of this is through it. It doesn't matter if it was 20 years ago. Until that wound is addressed and healed, it will fester and infect your whole marriage.
      If he won't seek counselling with you, then please find someone else who understands infidelity and can help you through this. You need support. You need someone to help you heal, to draw clear boundaries around what you need and who can help you honour yourself enough to never wonder if wanting to be treated with respect is asking for "too much".

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  70. Thank you for the quick response. I have wanted to post on here for a long time. Thank you for the kind words. Make no mistake... I have had to do some serious soul searching in light of my husbands affair. I had to accept a lot of ugly truths about myself, and decide that I had to make some efforts to change, as well. I'm still working on that, but that's the thing... I AM WORKING AT IT. He isn't. He seems to think a couple of vacations and the routine "I love you's" are enough. It's not that simple. I wish it were. I told him earlier this year that he had until September to put some effort into those things he promised me shortly after all hell broke loose. My youngest will be starting his first year of college, and I feel somewhat free, to now walk out if need be. I haven't worked in some time. I don't have a formal education, as I chose to be a stay at home mom to our 4 children. I don't have a car, because he drives a company car, and he just had to have an old vintage ford truck that serves no practical purpose for any of us, so I believe he thinks I'm stuck. That I could never walk out and find a way to take care of myself. He told me if I left, that I would never be welcome to come back. Ha!! Funny... coming from a man who has expected me to welcome him with open arms, change my ways, and then digest a river of trickle truths and lies. There doesn't seem to be anything obvious that should alarm me today, as far as him cheating, but his attitude towards me, and my continued expectations of him, has been enough to keep me from investing one more ounce of trust in this marriage. Without trust, there is nothing to re-build. I am sad, but a part of me is looking forward to the possibility that my life may be taking a whole new direction. My biggest worry is disappointing God, and not staying loyal to my vows. I sometimes feel that I am pulling in the wrong direction from what He would want me to do. My husband always suggested that we seek counseling years ago... before his decision to cheat, and now... he is avoiding it at all cost.

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    1. Jo,
      Allowing yourself to be treated without respect and consideration can't possibly be what any god - or the universe - wants for us.
      I think it's time for you to state clearly and unequivocally what you need from him. If it's therapy, then how often? I think once you state what you need without any wiggle room, it's going to be far more clear whether he will or will not give you what you need. If he doesn't, then that makes it clear that you future will be more of the same. If he does, then you'll either see it change him or not. Either way, it might help you figure out what's next.

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    2. Thanks again for the words of support. Crazy... today was one of those days when all seemed well. Not that he was doing anything out of the ordinary to make me feel like he's ready to honor all those promises, but it was merely a calm day when my insides didn't hurt so much. They are few and far between, but they do happen. One thing infidelity does bring to the table is confusion. Emotions from one day to the next can make you question that determination you had the day before. Ugh! How hard it is to love a man that you WANT to love, but aren't sure how to. How hard it is to love a man, that you will NEVER know if he really loves you.

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  71. Jo
    I so feel your pain! The 'mind movies' are the worst part or they were for me! I will tell you how I deal with them! I got a large cardboard box and started tearing it up into small pieces and with each piece I placed one of those movies into the trash where I feel like the ow belongs! It allowed me to clear my mind and then I could begin to fill my mind up with our 'movies'. May sound silly, but for me it was very freeing of those hurts. If I feel one returning, more paper tearing! Good luck!

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  72. It's been 4 1/2 months since D-Day. Will I ever stop fantasizing about the harm I want to come to that woman? I think of the worst possible things that would hurt her: getting mugged, raped, humiliated publically, her loved ones dying, having some cheap slut have a secret sexual relationship with someone she really thinks she can trust... like what she was a party to with me. I want her to feel every atom of my pain every day for the rest of her life. H and I are together and he's been doing what he should to regain my trust. Of course, I'm furious at him too. I keep throwing things away, breaking things... I even spit on his car a few times. I'm a lady. I'm a loving person, but I'm hurt and crazy now. Even things I used to find therapeutic like writing and art turn ugly and angry to a point I destroy what I'm working on. I am looking for some sort of counseling I afford just for myself. He and I went for awhile initially, but I've become a hate-filled nut-job.

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    1. Anonymous,
      Behind that hate is a mountain of pain and fear. I would encourage you to go back to writing and art. Don't worry about "ugly and angry". Let it out. Express it in a way that's therapeutic. You can't bottle all that up because it will come out one way or another.
      I was a rage-filled as you. Many of us were. But anger is a mask for the deep deep hurt we feel, and the fear that we're not safe.
      This is still so raw -- 4 1/2 months might feel like a lifetime but it takes years to feel like you've moved through all this.
      You'll get there. Therapy is a good idea. You need a safe place to work through all this pain.

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    2. I have found some excellent support in reading this blog! Two months in, and I am mostly evening out, with support from both an excellent counsellor and a good friend, and a husband who had taken responsibility for his actions. The OW, I realize, must be sitting on pins. Her employer is very conservative and if they knew what I know, she would be fired, and it would be very public. I won't do it, because it would hurt my kids and grandkids. But it feels good to know that she must be very worried.

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  73. Anonymous- IMHO, your DDay was so recent, it is so normal to feel like you feel. I know I did. I couldn't think of anything I would have enjoyed more than to smash OW face into brick wall over and over. I woke up every morning with the desire to punch my H in the face. Still do may days. It really does start to get better. Time really does help some. My therapist assured me that wishing all kinds of horrible things on OW is perfectly normal, just don't act on anything. I promise you will come to the point where thoughts about her start to diminish and you don't really think about her much, if at all. She will stop taking up space in your head but it takes time. I still have it some days but no where near as much as I did about 6 months ago. You are not a nut job, you are a completely normal, loving person who has been deeply hurt by someone who was suppose to protect you from harm. IT sucks that we are in this position that we didn't ask for but was thrust upon us without our permission. IT really does suck. I feel your pain as do the rest of us on here.

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  74. Does anyone else feel stuck in a place that is going no where? Not forward and not backwards. Like you are just alive but you don't know why? You know you want to be with your H but you don't really know why anymore? You know you love him, but don't know why? I think I feel like I am betraying my principals by wanting to still be with him. I feel like I am in limbo waiting on him to do some serious work on himself and wondering what will come of it. I don't cry everyday any longer. I still think of his A everyday but it doesn't consume my day any longer. I enjoy being with him and we are in a much better place than we have been in a long time when I am not thinking about IT. I just feel meh, like nothing, like something is still missing or wrong.

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    1. Lizzie,
      It's often called the dead zone or "the plain of lethal flatness", a sort of numbing out after the emotional rollercoaster that follows D-Day. At first it's a bit of a relief. A chance to catch our breath. But when it goes on, it does make many of us wonder if this is all there is. What the hell is the point of anything?
      Hang in there. Find things that do give you pleasure. Trust that you'll find your way back. If the numbness becomes too much or lasts too long (whatever "too long" feels like for you), you might want to find a therapist. Many of us experience post-trauma symptoms, which include numbing out. I certainly did. I hated it. Was glad to no longer feel so devastated but missed feeling anything at all. It's a survival mechanism and serves a purpose in the short term. But, like I said, if it starts to make you worry, find help. You can also read this post I wrote awhile back: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2010/03/dead-zone-nice-place-to-visitbut-you.html

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    2. Elle, thanks, that certainly helps explain it.
      "your heart can feel under wraps, like something fragile wrapped in gauze to ensure its safety"- I have said something similar to my H in that past. I told him that my heart is wrapped in bubble wrap for protection. He found that hard to hear. I have felt like this for a while now. I mentioned to my therapist that I was having a really bad time, basically an emotional meltdown and then all of a sudden everything stopped, it felt like a switch was turned off and I stopped feeling. It didn't last that particular time as I still had many highs and lows (particularly the lows) and then its like I just went numb and I have been like this for a few months now.

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    3. Lizzy,
      I agree with every single word that Elle said. I went through the same exact thing. I got passed it in my own time and you will too.

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    4. Lizzie, Talk again with your counsellor about it. I remember mine telling me that I'd become so adept at keeping my pain under control that I was keeping everything under control. She told me that we don't get to choose which emotions we experience and which ones we lock up. If we lock up fear and hurt, we also lock up joy. It felt terrifying to me to go back and feel all that pain again but it ended up being what allowed me to unlock the good stuff too.

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    5. Thanks, that is a good point. It makes a lot of sense actually as we were basically told that H needed more of a break from my emotions because of his emotional state-one where he cuts himself or tries to commit suicide. I literally bit my tongue and put my emotions in a box (I guess you can compare it to). I have given him so much of a break that it appears sometimes like he thinks I am "over it". I had an appointment on Monday evening with my therapist, she said she is concerned that I could be depressed as I am showing those signs, or it could be that the highs and lows were so big and now those may be over and I am just in the next stage which is to be numb for a bit. She said we will monitor it but in the mean time I am going to try to find things to do that will make me feel happy. Thanks for your comments, its nice to know I am not abnormal and that this is probably temporary.

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    6. Lizzie,
      Simply having a desire to seek out things that make you happy makes me think you're not depressed. I suspect you have just numbed out in order to give your husband emotional space. And now it's hard to re-access all that stuff. It sounds as if your therapist is on top of this, which is great. You might find, as I did, that by rediscovering some joy in your life, you end up weeping at odd times. My emotions were all over the map at first, like a hormonal teenager. But it felt so good to feel anything.

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  75. I am not having a good day. Whenever h & I don't have sex for a week or so this happens. I am basically 2 years post d day # 1. This is a letter I emailed him today:

    I really HATE the fact that u cheated. Now when we don't have sex for a while a million different things go thru my head: I'll bet THEY were never too tired (& how is that-- they both had kids & jobs); what is wrong with me that I'm always too tired?; no wonder he cheated-- I'm not interested in sex (which isn't true because our sex life was just fine when u started sleeping with sexual affair partner #1; how do I know he was working late on the computer last nite & not talking to or sexting some new woman; why WOULD u want to have sex with me anyway-- I have gained 30 lbs since we met, sex is always the same thing in the same position (no wonder u wanted some variety).

    U once said to me something like what is it that I think happened?

    I grew up watching Dallas. I think it was amazing lustful sex between people who couldn't keep their hands off each other & had great sex whenever they could. I understand that our relationship is not like that anymore & will never be. I would have been ok with that (& I was) until I found out that u had THAT with THEM & have THIS with ME. I hate feeling like the boring wife compared to the exciting hot other women.

    On days like today the voice in my head telling me I'm not good enough, not thin enough, not sexy enough is just too much to take. After all, if I were good enough I would be ready for sex all the time, u would be interested in me all the time, & u wouldn't have gone elsewhere.

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    1. Sam,
      That voice in your head can't be trusted. That voice in your head is the critic and she needs to be banished. We all have it. That voice that tells us, no matter what our accomplishments, that we aren't quite as good a mother as so-and-so, our house isn't as tidy, we're not as thin, and on and on and on. Affairs just give us a focus for all that self-criticism. It gives us a target -- someone to specifically compare ourselves to.
      It's only when YOU realize how amazing you are that the voice will be silent...or at least quieter. Nothing your husband can say will stop the critic for long. Sam, this is an inside job. Frankly, it was that voice in your husband's head that's responsible for his cheating. The voice that told him he wasn't quite good enough, strong enough, etc. etc. That voice lies to us.

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    2. Sam you are normal sweetie! I went thru hysterical bonding still am to a point. I get crazy too if many days passed and we don't. .. i need that closeness it seems. My H enjoys it but also freaks him out a bit i think... its like before we were married but because of his deceit sonetimes he thinks i have an alterior motive? Nope just trying to navigate this nightmare and IT consumes me still. Hes told me lots of detail but still holding some back to. Get some sun on your face if you can. Deep breaths .... i just wanted you to know you are perfectly normal. Xo

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    3. Elle, you are so right about the voice in my husband's head that told him he wasn't good enough, young enough, exciting enough.

      I recently asked him for the millionth time what he wanted to get out of it. He said sex. I said no bc you had an emotional/flirting affair with another woman and sexted multiple women in the end which led up to d day and claim not to have slept with them. Then he said the flirtation was exciting. He was bored, tired of his working day in and day out with no relief and no hobbies so flirting became his hobby.

      So I said so now you will be ok with not exciting. He said I'm not boring but also the excitement/flirtacious stage never lasts. It always develops into a relationship; the women want to talk to him and he doesn't want that. Sounds cold but we already have a relationship and he has enough of his own problems that he doesn't want to hear about theirs.

      Sounds cold but I heard a joke. One new prostitute said to another more seasoned one. "That's it? The men are just paying us to have sex with them?" The more seasoned one replied. "No they are paying us to leave after"

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    4. Sam,
      Yep, that's pretty much it, isn't it? Sex without emotion. Sex without expectation. The fantasy of every emotionally stunted man out there.

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  76. Today's my 31st Wedding Anniversary. FB has just posted a memory page for me! I posted our Wedding picture 3 years ago 2 months before they met. Not something i would do today.
    Lizzie your post (2.05) put into words how I feel. His mistake for 7 months with someone he didn't fancy when he's head wasn't right and he was not thinking straight (all he's words) has not only destroyed my spirit, rocked our family and numbed my feelings for him but taken away all the good memories I have. I don't feel the same about him as a person even thou I love him the same.
    Our world has changed because we have lost our house and most of our money. The stress of that is enough for any person or marriage. He says having an affair is what people do I that situation when life is so bad! Silly me for not being able to play the game. So would it be normal for me now go and find someone? Have my Grandchild today so hoping it will take my mind of things.
    Will be interesting if he wants to take me out tonight or go to his normal Tuesday night thing!!

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    1. Jane, I'm sorry but your husband using the stress in your relationship as an excuse to cheat?? It's an explanation, for sure. He was using the affair to escape the stress. But what a stupid f-ing way to do it. It simply made things SOOOO much more stressful. Surely he realizes that now.
      Hope you had a great day with your grandchild.

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    2. Jane, I'm so sorry that you are here and that we share a similar feeling. I do feel like the feelings have all changed but yet I still love him-and I don't really know why- probably from the numbness. Today we are suppose to go to couples therapy and he is suppose to start digging into the past more and as of yesterday evening, he is not feeling well. So, not sure if he will be coming with me. I hope that this sickness is real and not imaginary. I feel bad for saying that but I can't help thinking that its possible to avoid the hard work.
      Jane, I am so sorry to hear that you lost your house and money. I am sending you huge hugs and good wishes that things will turn out okay for you. Your h using your joint troubles as an excuse for cheating in terrible and quite frankly is just an excuse and the not the real reason. He needs to find out why he is capable of hurting you and your family in this way IMHO. Its not something people do in those situations, its what people with emotional issues that need to be worked on can end up doing in those situations because they are not emotionally mature enough to handle them while you are emotionally mature enough. He needs to work on himself. I would not accept that as a why. I hope you are enjoying your time with your grandchild. Give him/her a big hug and kiss

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  77. Help me!!!! I just found out my husband is registered on an escort agency website and has been visiting escorts. I confronted him and he said its just a massage and a happy ending WTF as if that makes it OK?? He betrayed me. I feel so humiliated :-( I know it is not just once he has done it before, in my own house, fucking whores!!! and now I just want to have sex with him. I don't know what to do. Then he goes and writes reviews about the whores like you would a restaurant.

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    1. I'm so sorry. I know your head is reeling from this. And your heart is shattered. What you do is insist immediately that he remove his profile and then you set about the painful task of figuring out where you go from here. In the meantime, though wanting to have sex is surprisingly normal (see "hysterical bonding"), it can also be dangerous. Use protection or abstain until you've both been tested.
      And please read here and elsewhere to get a handle on why men cheat. It is NOT because there is anything wrong with you.

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    2. Anon- This sounds awful. I found out that, for half the time we were together, my bf then fiance, now husband was cheating with all kinds of strangers from online. He wasn't able to claim or pretend that they were *only* massages, but there are some similarities. My mind was so blown that I was in shock and was unable to fully process it emotionally for over a year. I definitely got him std tested first before I even considered sleeping with him (as Elle recommended to you). Remember that your health must come first before him. You do not want to give one more chance of catching a (maybe incurable) disease.

      I'd also suggest talking about it with any friends or relatives you're comfortable with and in individual counseling. This helped me tons but I wish I'd done individual counseling way way earlier and delayed or even skipped marriage counseling. Doing marriage counseling too early (and with a not so good counselor) can mean that your husband just tries to hurry you getting over it and claims he has nothing more to talk about regarding his issues.

      Consider whether you're okay risking him doing this more in the future. This type of especially high risk/addictive type cheating often doesn't go away over night and he will probably continue lying about it and minimizing it for quite a while. For me, I eventually realized that my husband's issues were too deep and too risky for me, I was not okay with all of the lies he told, he continued to cheat for a bit even after I found out, I did not want to have to check his phone and computer for the rest of our lives, I no longer trusted his judgment or decisions, I realized he had an unhealthy porn obsession that probably wouldn't get better, and that he had a serious interest in stranger/risky sex that would probably never go away. It took me about 18 mos to finally emotionally process all of that and decide that being married to him wouldn't work for me. I hope that you'll do individual counseling, talk to friends/fam, and read up online about cheating w prostitutes and sexual addiction so you can decide much earlier what does and doesn't work for you.

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  78. Sam,
    I so feel your pain! I said those same things to myself in my head! If I was 'fill in the blank' then h would not have turned to her! None of our stories are exactly the same, but what I have learned in this blog is that our reactions and emotions are so similar, that by sharing them, we slowly begin to heal ourselves through the strength we see in others! I still have triggers that boil the anger up and out of me! I had to finally see my h 'broken' by realizing just how deep my hurt and pain is! He has also had to accept that 'trust me' is not automatic because he says 'he's changed'! I had to see the change, over and over everyday or it has no meaning! We are slowly becoming more comfortable talking about our feelings. Something my h never was good at doing in the past 30+ years. We are finding this strength with each other! It feels good! Today is a good day for me so far, but just this past week, I triggered, h had to deal with it all again! This time, he did it with patience and heartfelt I am so sorry I did this to us! He realizes how bad this has been for his own ego as well as the effects on me/us! Those moments of 'delightful new sex' have all become nightmares to him! My ways of coping may not help you, but the more you share and read others stories, I do believe you can find your right path through this mess you never asked for! Hugs and prayers for you! Listen to Elle and the others and keep your head up!

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  79. Anonymous. You're not alone ok? My h did the exact same thing. His were foreign strip clubs where benefits were expected. First I found his fake face book then his affair emails and then those exact type of reviews. It was crushing. That's where he met his whore who he had an affair with and he also made some shit up in his reviews to look like this big player. (Good God he was a PAYER. Not a player.) . Reading that stuff? I know sorting out truth from fiction was not so easy. In fact It was awful
    But guess what. It IS a big deal and he should know that and if he doesn't know that? That's REALLY an issue.
    The hysterical bonding is normal (Google and you'll find Elle's column on it. It's the first thing I read here) the upside for us is that the HB lead to a steady and better and WAY more active sex life. I have noticed most women hear don't talk about it much but we were crazed for MONTHS!! It was weird because it was in between all my crying and raging and his "I'm sorries" so it felt strange but I was a wild woman. I truly think it was reclaiming what was rightly mine.
    But he HAS To get off that site. My h did
    My h's site however did not allow deletions, so if I want to beat me self up, they are still online. Like freaking YELP.
    Still he had to get off the site. So does your husband. Rule number 1. Next stop perhaps therapy?

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  80. I just hate him right now and I am so hurt and to think in my own house.

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  81. Anon you are not alone in that gut wrenching pain. Every woman on this site has been through it. We are the only ones who know that agony. lola's outcome was different than mine and tours will be yours. Lola is correct. It's an addiction to the high and has NOTHING to do with you. It's awful we have to hurt so badly for someone else's blatant lies and actions. I am not worried about you. You are pissed and that is good. I am worried your husband thinks this is no big thing. Sure sign he has to get help and if he won't you should. You have got to take care of you and I am convinced you will. We're here for you

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  82. Besides hysterical bonding after dday you know whatelse noone talks about all the reocurring yeast infections that were unexplained. .. geez i had repeat appts treatments and even ultrasounds and testing. Wtf all along i thought sonething was wrong with me! Now whe. I get one which could totally be stress or unrelated i get to think ... hes he cheating again? Sighhh trying to stay positive! Chin up ... but hard obsessing alot lately.

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  83. E I am on board 200 percent. Action tomorrow. For sure. What a great idea.

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  84. I feel plagued bad few days suffering alone wallowing in the affair ... obsessing about details known and unknown hurt that times i needed him he was there! I ponder tell him the things im specifically hurt by even though i knows he knows the shit we/ i was going through alone at home at night when i thought he was working ..... hes admitted he was wrong ... selfish and made tons of mistakes and lies .... shoukd that be enough are the details my issue to work through or us voicing again going to help silence it some ... i dont want to hurt and know obsessing serves no purpose or maybe my mind needs this to process ... try and heal ... hoping im not stuck ..... and still wanting more details.... 10 weeks in .... sat with some sun on my face last evening. Allowed myself to obsess shed a few lonely tears but not sob into a curled up mess. Guess even functioning sonewhat with home work kids and IT playing continuously in my head is an achievement in itself. Tgif weekend and i can move at my own pave vs the daily scheduled grind. Trying to stay positive. ..but so overwhelmed!

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    1. Yes! Hang to that realization that you ARE functioning somewhat and that is a freaking miracle, given what you've had to deal with.
      Trying to "stay positive" can backfire when we feel we have no outlet for our pain and our anger and our confusion. See if you can carve out some time, every single day, to obsess...or not. Depending on how you're feeling. Try journalling before bed. Just dump all your pain onto the page. Confide in a trusted friend, if you have someone you think can just listen and not tell you what to do.
      We do need time to process all this. It's a huge shock to our system so it's no wonder if takes time (a LONG time) to work through it all and figure out where we go from here.
      But it sounds, 10 weeks in, like you're doing really great.

      Delete
  85. Is there something "wrong" with me that rather than the hysterical bonding that others seem to have, that I have been quite the opposite? I loathe to let him touch me because he has ALWAYS compared me physically to other women (half my age) our entire ten year marriage. The only time he would touch me was when he got himself "worked up" by some other woman prior to sex with me (usually flirting at work). We have not been intimate in 3 months now...something inside me just snapped and I was finished with this whole charade. I am so SICK of his objectifying and my feeling ashamed of myself that I wont let him see me naked (let alone touch me) until he STOPS his mental fantasies and USING me as a stand in for what he would rather have. Is this normal? BTW, husband's ex wife suffered a ton of unexplained yeast infections throughout their 20yr marriage and he cheated on her too...but was never caught.

    He is now doing a 30 day water only fasting to become "mentally, emotionally, and spiritually pure". He is in day 4 now...this was entirely his idea and he is hoping that perhaps God will help him. He took 30 days vacation off from work in order to accomplish this...so I must say that I am rather impressed. He said that he has been wanting to do this for decades...and that I have been like a "hammer" to him, getting him to take a good look at himself...don't know what that means since I am generally kind and rarely talked about the issue (no point since he always denied it and it would always lead to an ugly argument). And if he had been wanting to do this for decades, it is really too sad because he may have been able to save his last marriage if he had. Meanwhile, I cannot go back to the way things were. Ever. Don't care any more if it leads to divorce or not. I just want to live my life at 60yrs old with the freedom of not having this painful issue anymore.

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    Replies
    1. Rowena,
      I think "normal" is whatever you're experiencing right now. In other words, there's no "right" way to heal from this.
      I think you've had enough. I think you're making some really clear boundaries around what you will and won't tolerate, which is important. It sounds as if you've put up with far more than you should have for far too long.
      I think, however, that at some point if you choose to stay with him, you're going to want to re-introduce intimacy. But that's the thing: you want intimacy, not just mechanical sex. And it sounds as if he doesn't have a clue what that is. He might really benefit from a sex addiction 12-step group. Or do some reading of SA literature. Whether or not he agrees with the "addiction" component, it's nonetheless got some great info about how to develop a healthy approach to sexuality, sort of the way people with eating disorders have to learn how to eat in a way that's healthy and not compulsive.
      In the meantime, holy moly with the cleanse. That's a huge commitment. I've heard before that it can feel quite freeing but that, for a week or so, the hunger pangs are pretty intense. Curious how it turns out for him.
      While he's focussed on that, you might want to also do some reading about how to re-introduce intimacy and get clear on what you need from him. You'll never know, for instance, what he's thinking about but you can try to keep the communication open between the two of you so that he will stop if his mind is wandering to where it shouldn't, for example.

      Delete
  86. It's been 2years since I discovered my husband cheating with various women, online and in the flesh. He said he was sorry and we decided to stay together and try and rebuild our marriage.

    Yet I seem to be the only one left with the demons in my head. He just sails on day to day. At the start yes he was different very loving and attentive, but now it's just the daily grind. He's left for work this morning not back till Friday, today is Monday.

    I've just spent another weekend being virtually ignored. No sex,no closeness. I just lye in bed at night thinking of all the desire he had for these women and there's just nothing for me. He seems to not think there's any ground work or romancing needing to be done to repair what he has done to our marriage.

    Ive got to the stage where I just don't say any more to him as its always twisted back at me, that I make no effort etc... I so glad I've had two children to love and be loved back or my life would be pretty empty emotionally wise.

    Would I be better just to be alone than stay with someone who just ignores me anyway, am I being to needy ? Do I have the strength to go it alone ? Do I just expect less and be happy with my lot ? I now know my marriage isn't the great love I hoped it would be and that I wasn't enough for my husband to keep his vows.

    I do know that I've never been so dead yet still alive. I wish I never had to meet this devastation in my life and that I should of made better choices when I was younger, but it is what it is and I struggle on, hanging in there cause I don't know what else to do.

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    1. Anonymous,
      It sounds as if you're still in the same marriage you were in when he was cheating. Just removing the other women doesn't magically make the marriage better. He needs to step up and realize that he's got a lot of change to create in order to rebuild the marriage he shattered.
      Are you two in any sort of therapy? It sounds as if your needs are ignored or he's unaware of them. How do you two communicate?
      And please know that his cheating was NOT because you are not enough. It has nothing to do with you, no matter what he says. He cheated because he lacked the moral compass to say 'no' when tempted. He cheated because he lacks the ability to connect with you in a healthy way. He cheated because for a lot of reasons that were not about you but about his own emotional immaturity.
      If he wants you to stay in the marriage, then he needs to follow your rules. You need to decide what those rules are. Do you both seek counselling? Couples counselling? Do you institute date nights? Figure out what you need from him and then make it clear that it's all about rebuilding a healthy marriage based on a respect for both partners and a desire to satisfy the needs of both partners.
      You do not need to live like this.

      Delete
  87. Exactly that! He makes as if this is not a big deal. He said that he thought we finished fighting over it and why do I still feel angry and sad. I hate him right now. He deleted the account but who knows where else he is registered? Surely its not just the one site. I hate WHORES!!!!!! What kind of women sells herself?? It is so disgusting.

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  88. and how easy will it be just to open another gmail account for fucking whore purposes...

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    1. That's true. We can never know everything our spouse is up to...which is why we need to create a marriage in which we're honest with each other. Without that, we don't have much.

      Delete
  89. My husband and I are staying together after a big ol suprise d-day for me this spring. He says he's going to spend the rest of his life making it up to me and being a better man and husband and it's our hope to form a relationship better than it was; however, there is that problem where he's all relieved and ready for our new and exciting future together when I'm very depressed. I think he's starting to understand that my depression and anxiety are separate from my desire to stay together or not. He was acting so discouraged when I have needed to express my feelings about something... Part of me wants to scream YOU DON'T GET TO BE DISCOURAGED! Anyway, he's seems to be getting the point that I have to be able to say what I need to say and him not internalize it. I'm not shaming nor blaming, just figuring out what the heck has been going on for the last 2 years that I was so blind to. And, yep, if they want to cheat, they will find a way. There's a thousand ways to do it... I play a little guitar and get some pleasure of playing a Beatles song "Little Girl" or whatever the proper title is...there is a line, "I can't spend my whole life just trying to make you toe the line..." And I can't. And it wouldn't work anyway because I can't control what he does. It's just scary to think how much went on for so long with me so clueless. Trust is going to take a very long time to rebuild and he will have to continue to be very open and honest with me, "transparent." and I have to let a lot of things go, because I can't hide from every little one of the 1000 things that cause me pain; but I can save the ones that I need to talk about, to talk about.... calmly. We aren't going to get anywhere by screaming and yelling, so I find ways to try to get that anger energy out without throwing it all at him, although my inner smart-ass or hurt little girl do let the barbs fly at times. Everyday...everyday...big steps, small ones, steps back... just keep going.

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    1. It's not uncommon for these guys, finally unburdened because the truth is out, to expect us to join them in this bright new future they now envision. For them, the ordeal is over. For us, it's just beginning.
      He needs to understand just how long the process is. A "trust violation" as the experts call it is one of the deepest emotional wounds we sustain. It changes how we view the world, it shakes our trust in ourselves, it alters everything we thought we knew.
      It might help if he did some reading on what it's like to be a betrayed spouse. Here is a great link someone posted that might really give your husband a sense of what you're going through (it's from a Christian site but you can ignore that part if you want): http://affaircare.com/articles/understanding-your-loyal-spouse/
      Hope it helps.

      Delete
    2. Enjoyed link even sent to my H to read maybe make him understand more how i feel.

      Delete
  90. Anon
    I see me in your post! My h also has big plans to make it up to me! He tries so hard. He still does not understand my anger, pain, feelings of loss. He was so relieved whe ow spilled 'her truth'! He thought that would be the end of her and the tortuous way she threatened to expose him. He was so wrong that she would bow out gracefully! She stalked us for six months trying to get him to meet her one more time so she could see that it was love in his eyes instead of 'just sex'. This ow was so crazy, she behaved as if she were the 'wife' and he cheated on her! That six months of hell has been very hard on both h and me. Once he had her locked up for harassment, no contact put in place by a judge, we could begin to help each other see what this affair has cost us! He is continuing to do the best he can do and I am slowly coming to grips with all the emotions this affair has churned up in me! I was a happy person that rarely showed anger! This tried to turn me into a bitter old woman! I refuse to be that kind of person! I am better than that! One day at a time! One foot in front of the other!

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  91. Theresa, If you read Elle's response, the link she put on there for the H is really, really good. I made another attempt to explain this to him last night when he got SO frustrated when I shared that it had been a hard day. I don't shame and blame...he does that to himself and I told him all I really wanted was for him to say "Sorry you had a hard day" and give me a hug. When he started his self-deprecating talk, I simply said that perhaps he needs to forgive himself. I know that behavior of his is controlling and a form of avoidance of dealing with the real subject. He even said that I was internalizing everything. Really? The fact of the matter is that he had a year and a half affair with a woman who is a real nut-job. I can't say she's bowed out gracefully, but I'm lucky she's not causing all the trouble you're having and I surely hope you can get her to go away. He has hurt me worse than I've ever been hurt by anything in my life. I was a happy person too- I'm glad to hear you say you won't accept being an old bitter person, because I believe those happy people we were are still in there somewhere...it sounds like you're a good person and I hope your inner happy person, (and mine too), are watching all this and waiting their turn to re-surface. For now, I'm crazy. If my H cannot come to grips with my depression and my desire to stay with him are SEPARATE things, I can't do anything about that. Like you said...one day at a time, one foot in front of the other- with that viewpoint, I think you're going to be okay...one day...as will I when we've had proper time and support to heal. Good luck- I wish you the best.

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  92. Hello all,

    I said I was not going to have a major melt down again but… HIMSELF began to talk and said his life was perfectly happy in his 20 year affair with one of his OW. He said he felt he was taking care of us at home and business and the other part of his life was with OW - he felt content he said. HIMSELF proudly proclaimed he gave his long term (20yr) affair partner money each month because he knew she was “having a hard time” and needed his help. I blew my top. Nuclear explosion is more like it. This affair partner is 59 years old -- has a brand new car, owns her own home, works full time GREAT salary, NO children still living in the home (ages 37 & 39). She filed for bankruptcy in 2007 so she should have no major bills. A hard time I screamed?? You were happy and content I screamed so loud my throat hurt. I knew I was melting down but I could not stop. I looked around me at the things that need doing in the house - things he said had to wait.

    HIMSELF is 67 - I am 65. We are both retired. We had planned to keep our cars 10+ years with the help of our trusted auto mechanic. We had planned simple vacations every 2 years or so. All of this planning was going on while he KNEW he was living a separate life with another woman for 20 YEARS!! He spent thousands and thousands and thousands+++++ of dollars over the last 5 years on this affair because she was “having a hard time” ?? Say what?? This affair lasted 20 YEARS - I do not even want to think about the tens of thousands of dollars he spent on OW in the full 20 years. I drive a car that is over 10 years old and she has a brand new car?? He drives a truck that is 8 years old?? Her monthly salary is more than my monthly pension?? A hard time my arse!! I have read so many articles and books that describe some cheating spouses as selfish. HIMSELF is selfish, self-centered, egotistical and evil. I did finally calm down and told him that I did not give a damn how hard of a time she was having. I told him that charity begins at home. HIMSELF admitted (halfheartedly) that he was wrong for the affairs (all of them).

    It is talks like this that push me further toward the door. And then HIMSELF gets a diagnosis of hepatitis in his yearly physical. Wonder which one of his female sex partners helped him obtain this disease?? My test results are not in yet but should be negative because after his affair 30+/- years ago he has always been required to wear condoms with me.

    Silent Scream… I scream so loud and with such pain that no sound comes out....

    GET TESTED!! No matter what you think you know -- GET TESTED.

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    1. Oh SS, I'm so sorry. He really can't seem to learn to shut the hell up, can he? What the hell is he thinking?
      You've got a boatload of pain to wade through. And it sounds as if his head is still completely messed up. How can he justify spending so much money over the years? Does he view that as "his" money and not household money?
      And yes, get tested. Absolutely.

      Delete
    2. Elle,

      Maybe super glue his mouth shut?? Nope, just kidding. I make jokes occasionally to make myself laugh. My therapist says he was with his OW for so long that OW is actually a part of his thinking. When HIMSELF does talk about the OW he is talking/living the life "with" her which was his normal for 20 years -- according to my therapist. My therapist thinks he is going through the same grief process that would have accompanied a divorce from a 20 year marriage. Therapist says HIMSELF and OW grew older together - they met when he was mid-40’s and OW was late 30’s. Therapist says they have seen each others’ bodies change and the things I was experiencing with HIMSELF as a couple growing older together -- OW and HIMSELF were experiencing similar things. For example -- HIMSELF is almost fully bald now and has a “spare tire”. When they met HIMSELF had a full head of hair and was muscular. OW was tall and shapely when they met and now OW is a bit pudgy with the usual “love handles” some of us get. HIMSELF says OW got heavy when she was going through menopause but lost some weight after things settled. What in the HELL was HIMSELF doing going through menopause with another female?? My path to healing has been compromised by HIMSELF telling me one story for ONE YEAR and then 2 months ago - another story. I am closer to leaving but then there is his lung cancer and his newly diagnosed hepatitis to deal with. I am retired nurse and caring for people is just what I do. I took care of my clients for 12 hours each day and went home. I'm thinking I can assist HIMSELF but not live with him - it worked for my clients in hospital - should work for HIMSELF.

      He did admit he thought of his salary and his pension as his money to do with as he pleased. He does not talk about justifying the reckless spending with OW. He keeps saying he was taking care of everything at home/business so he saw no problem "helping her out" because she was "having a hard time". When I put the spread sheet in front of him with his monumental expenditures over the 20 years he kept saying, "I did not spend that much, where do you get these figures from?" I was ready for that and gave him a monthly spread sheet for 2013. I saw the look of disgust on his face.
      I ended the talk by telling him that all of those times he wanted to improve the business and upgrade things -- he was spending money on hotels and helping out a female whose income was quite sufficient before he retired ((even after she filed bankruptcy)) and whose income exceeded his after he retired. She did not need ANY help.

      I know what happened - I think. After many years when the OW realized HIMSELF was not going to make her his wife she began to ask for money and get what she could while the getting was good. HIMSELF then began to give her an allowance each month. He was truly living a double life - with secret financial accounts.

      I'm just sick and tired of being sick and tired. I really do not know who HIMSELF is anymore. I do not think I ever knew who he was. The lies, the secrets.
      Sorry this was so long. I needed to vent.

      Delete
  93. SS i feel your pain my H also long term affair ... he knows wrong but when i bring up money in his mind everyone was taking care of so whats the big deal ... we went thru some statements and actually seemed disgusted hw hadn't taken time to tally how much he was actually giving spending w ow. Angry sure but nothing i can do to get back only take control of mobey now i know he still find ways to do if if he want to but it will take more work im hoping his fog is lifting.

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  94. SS, my heart is aching for you. I can't imagine going through what you are going through. You are a very strong and courageous woman. I don't know that I could live with what you are living with. My heart goes out to you. I have been thinking a lot about you lately.

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  95. H is trying so hard and I keep triggering. I am having such a difficult time in believing what he tells me. I know I have good reason to not believe he is telling the truth yet but I find it very frustrating. I am grieving the trust I used to have in him and know that I never will again...at least not like I did. I guess that is a good thing, but I miss it. I believe our marriage will be better than it has been in a long time now that we have seen where we were going wrong but I know that there will be parts of our marriage that will not be for the better, at least for the foreseeable future. I am still not in a place where I can give up on needing some questions answered but I am working on it. I am trying to come to terms with the fact that I may never know what I feel like I need. I am not there yet and really don't know if I ever really will but I am working on it. I do have confidence that my future will be happy with my H. I am hoping that the faith is not misplaced

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  96. Thanks Anon and Lizzie. Your kind comments are like a really big hug! Just when I needed it.

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  97. SS--meltdown COMPLETELY justified. I'm sure you know Elle posted a column quite a while back about why men should "just fu%ck&ing talk about it" but your husband doesn't know quite when the shut the fuk UP. I am pretty horrified. I was when you found out one thing, and then that one thing was not at all what you thought, and now this. I was pissed that my H paid for a hooker or two, a hotel room, some meals and I am sure more than a few drinks--THAT set me over the edge. 20 years. I don't have words. And for me, you know that's odd. I am just so so sorry.

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