Feeling Stuck: Part Five

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201 comments:

  1. I'm realizing there are intervals where I'm letting my husband back into my life and there are intervals where I wonder if I will ever let him back into my heart. They are not the same. That is moving forward too I guess. I'm wondering if I can have a better marriage based on that. My heart is still broken and hurt, more at some times than other times. What is acceptance? Is that as far as I can go?

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    1. Lynn,
      I think it's easy for us to fall into this trap where we think of healing as a destination. Sort of a place we arrive at and that's where we stay. It's a process that will likely continue the rest of your life. Long after you think you're "done", you might find something in your just shifts, and your relationship deepens further. (Or, you might find something shifts the other and your relationship fractures -- marriages are not static). For instance, I've mentioned that my daughter is dealing with some mental health issues. My husband, who I know wouldn't have been able to emotionally handle this crisis a decade ago, is so present and so open-hearted and such a support to me and our daughter that I find what we went through re. infidelity receding even further into the past. So long after I thought I was "over it", I'm realizing that he's still evolving and so am I and so is our marriage.
      I suspect you'll find the same. Be patient with yourself. Be compassionate with yourself. And keep your heart as open as it can be.

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  2. I see so much of my story in the stories I read here and elsewhere on the internet. My husband cheated emotionally, and then confessed out of the blue, and then cheated physically with another woman 2 years later. At first, it was all about blaming me. I don't need to tell you all the reasons he stated it was my fault. I can admit to some responsibility however I am always struck with the age old chicken and egg story. What came first? His verbal and emotional abuse causing me to shut down emotionally and withdraw? Or my emotional unavailability towards him due to abuse and neglect as a child? It's a vicious cycle.

    So, with the trickle truth and then eventual digging that lead to the actual full-blown confession, a little more trickle truth and the final, full confession, it's been almost a year. He thinks we're in a great space, although we have had one or two big blowouts where divorce was thrown around. I just asked him to move out and give me space. He's thinking this is temporary and is willing to do it. Maybe too eager.

    When do I just say enough is enough? I still love him, but do not want to be stuck in this distrustful, obsessive (on my part) and defensive and angry and blaming (on his part) relationship.

    Is there any hope for those of you still hanging on? I'm stuck wanting out, yet not wanting to move on.

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    1. Anonymous,
      The thing with this is that we each have to walk our own road. This might be a deal-breaker for you. Or it might be that, with true remorse on his side and deeper insight into why he cheated, you're able to trust that he's become a better man. One way isn't more right than another. If you're feeling good about a separation, then maybe that's the way to go. But if you're using it to sort of manipulate him -- to make him worry, or appreciate you, or get scared -- then it's not a good idea. You need to get clear on what exactly you need from him to consider working rebuilding your marriage or if there's nothing he can do that's enough.

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  3. How do you deal with seeing the OW out in public? Every time I go out or getting ready to go out, that fear creeps in, that I might run into her.

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    1. Anon- Punch her in the throat. JUST KIDDING! Just kidding! Hope it made you chuckle though. That's a tough one. I voluntarily met with the OW after I found out that my husband and her were still in contact with each other 8 mths after the affair. I did it to try to find some truth and I thought that maybe she wasn't as horrible as I imagined. Maybe my husband messed with her mind just as badly as mine and made her really believe that he loved her. Biggest mistake I ever made! She was worthless and a complete fake. Now that day haunts me because I actually felt sorry for her and apologized for my husbands actions! she has a husband who she was going to counseling with and 2 little girls at home. She cared about nobody but herself. I thought maybe as a mother she would back off once meeting me and seeing the devastation she was helping to cause. Nope. I'm not sure how I would handle it if I saw her again, but I would like to think that I would hold my head high knowing that my character and integrity crushes any little bit she has. And my husband has put her in his past completely so I think in all aspects, she loses. She is a complete waste of my time and space if you ask me. To react in a negative way would please them. She has taken enough of your happiness and I'd be willing to bet that her seeing you unaffected by her presence would boil her cold blood. Don't live in fear....especially over someone so worthless.

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    2. Thanks, I did chuckle thinking about punching her in the throat. But you are right, I will not live in fear of running into her, I will not let her see me affected by her presence. Thank you for your words. Sorry for the pain that you had endure, but your advice was very helpful and I appreciate it. Thanks.

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    3. It can be so hard because the fear of running into her can make you feel constantly off-balance. It's good to have a plan so that, if it does happen, you're somewhat ready. I always opted for the hold-your-head-high route. You have nothing to feel ashamed about...which is something she can't say. Try and treat her as though she doesn't exist. And then get as far away as possible.

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    4. I DO run into her at my husband's concerts. Can't control it- how do you control a public venue? I've seen her three times since last summer- the first two times were horrible for me. She saw me at the first- allowed her son who had been my H's student to come talk to my H like nothing was wrong- poor kid- she hid it from him, too. Not his fault.
      I saw her at the second and wanted to run away, except I was blocked in my seat by older people with walkers and canes- talk about a poor choice in seats! I was in full panic attack and left as fast as I could at the end of the concert, then had a total meltdown on the way home. Both of those concerts were ruined for me. The last time she ended up sitting a few rows behind me, and when I turned around to talk to a friend, there she was and she saw me, too. I pretended I didn't notice her (doubt I have that good of a poker face, though) and then turned around and ignored her. It has been hard. I think the first few times you actually see her...IF you ever see her...will be hard- try not to look at her and find another route, cross the street, whatever you have to do to avoid her. And don't let her see that you notice her. If you're with a friend, make a point of laughing and smiling. But you can't hide in your house- and I can't stop going to my H's concerts because I'm afraid she might be there. I can't control the universe, so I have to control my reactions.
      I expect I'll continue to see her, and I think it will always be uncomfortable since I knew her and was ok with her friendship with my H for many years. The only "comforting" thought is that the two of them managed to ruin a really nice friendship and they will never be friends again. There ARE consequences for our bad behaviors. Idiots. No one to blame but themselves, and it's strangely sad and kind of satisfying at the same time.
      C.

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    5. C,
      "I can't control the universe so I have to control my reactions."
      We should all have that stencilled on our walls, shouldn't we? Beautiful.

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  4. Love this article on trust by John Gottman:
    http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/john_gottman_on_trust_and_betrayal

    And this one too:
    http://greatergood.berkeley.edu/article/item/surviving_betrayal

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  5. Hi everyone, Abi here ... my story is in part 4 of this blog. In summary, I am 4 months post DDAY, have two very young children and my husband had an affair while on a military deployment for 6 months. He came home and tried to make our marriage work, but has since been unable to actually LET GO of the affair itself. He is still living in a fantasy with this woman, and "picturing himself in a relationship with her." My second counselor recommended I go home to my family for some space -- it was a very hard decision because he now lives 5,000 miles away from us. We are trying to use the time apart to reflect on where we are NOW and look for clarity.

    I am in search of words of wisdom about my situation -- has anyone lived with a husband who is about 75% there? He has stopped all contact with the OW and was physically here with our family, but he was never able to say things like, "I will do anything to make this marriage work." or "I am 100% committed to you and our marriage" he instead is grappling with being caught in the fog of the affair and the fantasy that comes along with it.

    I always appreciate everyone's input and encouragement ... thank you!
    Abi

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    1. Abi,
      So glad you checked in with us. I've been wondering how you're doing. I think your husband's head is still so far up his ass that expecting anything of him right now is a recipe for heartbreak. As long as his head is still in the affair, there isn't room for you and your kids.
      I think, for your own sanity, you should focus as best you can on your kids and your own healing. Whether he's able to smarten up in time to rebuild a marriage with you remains to be seen. But if that time comes, you'll have had the support of your family and the chance to get really clear on what YOU want. Have you read about the 180? It's a way to put some emotional distance between you and your husband while setting really clear boundaries. I never used it but many women have and said it was good for them...and ultimately for their marriages. You can read about it here: https://beingabeautifulmess.wordpress.com/the-180/

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    2. Abi,

      I think Elle is soooo right. Your husband just doesn't sound committed to you or his children. The Officer & Gentleman is still AWOL. As hard as that maybe to accept, the only thing you can really do is to concentrate on yourself and your very young children. Perhaps you married to young or whatever he still is financially responsible for those kids. Don't let him bail on that! Deadbeat fathers should be held accountable in the military I would guess. In the meantime as you decide what to do while he drifts away in lala land. 75 percent isn't worth jack squat in my opinion when you're shouldering the load. You're entitled to all those military benefits while he mourns his fantasy. Use them to your benefit but ask yourself would you want your children to have the kind of marriage you do. Again, wishing you sleep, and time to enjoy those babies while you can. They grow up so very very fast.

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    3. Hi Elle and Pilot's Wife (and everyone else),

      I have been separated from my husband for 2 weeks now. It's been a very difficult time with surges of emotions both positive and negative. This last week we have had minimal contact to actually try for a "real" separation. I felt like he needed to feel the loneliness that comes with not trying to make things right with me.

      He's changed his tune ... there is still not enough conviction behind his words, but he claims to want his family, and to be a better person. He is in therapy, has begun reading the Bible (and other religious books) and is working very hard on himself - becoming "whole," we like to say. I asked him where I fit in during this whole process and he said, "as my wife - someone who I support in healing and who supports me."

      We have an affair-recovered couple who is helping "counsel" us ... and they are convinced that we will end up in divorce if we go through this apart. They said we need to be slogging through this all, together. It scared me because I am not ready for the serious divorce talks ... but I do not take their advice, lightly.

      For now, I am focusing on me as much as possible, even though my life is exponentially harder being a single parent without our own home/space to make our life, it's nice to be around family.

      best,
      Abi

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    4. Abi,
      This is your path and fight not the groups. I threw my H out the moment I found out even though he denied it all. I had proof. As far as I was concerned there was nothing to work on if he couldn't admit what he did and be 100% into fixing it ALL. It took him 1 day to admit (through heaving tears) what he did. I still did not take him back. I asked him to find a temporary residence. I told him that I need time to think straight on what I was willing to move forward with and having him constantly around was a distraction for me. I told him I needed time. I also told him I stilled loved him, but I didn't know if the pain was too great to move past and I definitely could not trust him. We lived separately for 3 weeks. In that 3 weeks we got counseling and even went on a date. That was my time that I needed to decide what I was willing to work on. He also needed to start his own therapy to take ownership of why he did this. This was not an easy time, but I truly believe any other road would not have been successful. It gave me the time (and him) to clear our heads and truly commit to what we wanted and what was important. It sounds like your H needs that. He is not committing to you if he knows you won't actually go anywhere. He is just stuck in self pity. You and your kids are the most important.. Sometimes the hard thing is the right thing, but you would know better than anyone in your own situation. The group is wrong and have no right telling you what works for you. They can only tell you what has worked for them. Sometimes it takes some distance to get your priorities straight. Be strong in what you know is right. You will know if and when it is time to let him back in. He needs to earn it. He has done a lot of damage. Stay strong. You are fighting for your family. This is the toughest fight some of us will ever go through. I am 20 months past DDay and we are stronger than ever and recommitted still. I won't say I don't have my triggers, but I have learned how to deal with them in my own way. Let us know how you are doing. I read this blog all the time. If I can help someone going through this, I want to. Its helpful when you know someone gets it and your not alone.

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    5. Abi,
      I'm with Julie. I think an "affair-recovered" couple might help but nobody should be issuing predictions. Truth is, none of us knows who will survive and who won't. We only know what feels right for us...and we need to respect that. You're incredibly vulnerable right now and it seems unfair for others to be trying to direct you one way or the other. Try your best to get still and listen to your own gut. "Talk" it out on this site. We're great listeners!
      (And thanks Julie, for responding to Abi. It's so wonderful when we can support each other through this.)

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  6. Just to add on that both my parents are dead, lost my dad suddenly last year & I am an only child, I feel so alone and lost. I cannot open up to my husband as my heart is so guarded now after the way he betrayed me. I am a stay at home mum so social life is limited, We have two kids which are my sanity daily. I love their hugs and love as I know it is true and not tainted the way my husbands it now. Sometimes I wonder if I will ever get over what he did, so then why am I here ? Love, fear of no where to go? Fear of being alone ? Not wanting to fail at my marriage or ruin my kids childhood? It's a mix of them all. I wish I could have one day where I didn't think of what he did to us. Yet he seems to be able to cope fine. May be I am just too emotional person and have gone through to much lately.

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    1. Of course, you're in pain. You've gone through so much in such a short period of time. Your heart must feel utterly battered and bloody. Please show yourself some compassion and acknowledge just how devastating all this has been.
      It's wonderful that you're finding joy in your kids. That's a regular reminder that the world still has beauty and truth and wonder in it. It'll keep you from getting bitter.
      But you need support. Do you have any good friends you can trust with this? Can you find yourself a great therapist who can support you? Please keep posting here -- we're a great bunch who know the pain you're in. You're NOT too emotional. You're in pain.
      Find ways to nurture yourself through this. Can you get a sitter for a few hours a week and follow up on a hobby you enjoy, or join a club, or go for a walk? Figure out what you can do to get out into the world, even just a bit. It might also help you get clear on whether you want to stay or go. In the meantime, what is your husband doing to help you heal?

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  7. I am 1 1/2 years post d day. I still thinks bout what he did every day too, but the hurt and sadness & anger are not nearly as intense. I don't start sobbing at the drop of a hat. As a matter of fact the anger is really almost gone, if not completely gone. I guess I'm sort of in the acceptance phase.

    Yes your kids love is different because they won't betray you. But ur husbands live is not tainted. He loves u too. But love doesn't stop people from betraying their loved ones or from being selfish.

    Sam

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  8. Thank you for taking the time to reply to me, just reading your comments alone has given me a boost. I'm normally such an outgoing person but behind closed doors its a different story since d day. I will take time for myself over the next few weeks & see where that takes me. I just miss my parents very much, the only two people who truly have your best interests at heart aren't here, I dont want to confide in my husband as I feel he doesn't deserve my opening up my heart to him again. He was my rock and he choose to betray me, whether it is right or wrong I am keeping up a pretence of happiness until I work out how I feel, he pretended for years.

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    1. Yes, it takes time to decide whether he deserves a second chance...and whether you want to give him one. And I wouldn't be surprised if the betrayal isn't also wrapped in the grief at losing your parents. You've experienced so much loss in such a short period of time.
      My mom passed away six months after D-Day and she was MY rock. She was the best cheerleader I've ever had. It complicates the feelings from betrayal because I was so angry at my husband for now giving me the chance to just grieve my mom's loss without all the other pain mixed in with it.
      Now that I'm long beyond that horrible time, I can see how much my mom's wisdom was still with me and guiding me through my pain.
      I hope you have someone you do feel you can talk to -- whether a paid therapist or a wise friend. Or, please, use this site as a sounding board. It's by telling our stories that we heal.

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  9. Its been only 2months since my DDay. It has been a long haul, it started as an emotional affair which I consistently brought up and he denied. I never thought it would become physical because he isn't that kind of person but it did, he confessed (it went on for about 2 years). It was with a co-worker whom he worked with closely on projects and could vent work with. We have been having problems with our relationship for quite awhile and while he focused on work, I focused on raising the kids. We did our own
    thing for awhile, as I tried to change things and read different books on relationships he would ignore what I was trying to do. Which I realized he was to preoccupied keeping things straight in his mind. He would take time to think things through but he was so confused and had trouble keeping his thoughts organized he would shut down and I would give up and live status quo. Oh I should mentioned he ended it last summer. He says he was debating telling me and decided that he needed his space and got himself an apartment 4 months ago because he was confused and didn't know what to do plus he was tired of the arguments we were having. We have been to counseling together and individually, it helps sort out our feelings and thoughts. I have been sitting on the fence not sure which way to take, I have recently decided that I wanted to try and rebuild and commit to us, but I am afraid of what the future holds. He has the same fears. We have at least been able to talk to each other (the most we have done in years)
    but we have times when we are both ready to call it quits.....is that normal? I feel like i ride an emotional roller coaster everyday. I also fear he realizes he still wants to be with the ow and not with me, even though he says its either us or nobody. He has questioned what is love and whether he knows what it is to love? So I am trying to take it one day at a time, some days...minute by minute. I also have not told anyone for fear of them trying to change my mind or influence my choices. I want this to be my choice and mine alone.
    s

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    1. Coaster,
      I'm so sorry for what you're going through. It's hell.
      yes, I think what you're going through is "normal" under the circumstances. But that doesn't make it easy.
      It sounds as though he's got a lot to work through on his own before he's really able to commit fully to rebuilding a marriage with you. And that might give you the time to work through some of your own pain around this and figure out whether you really want to re-commit. So that's what I would suggest. That each of you work with a therapist on your own stuff to get more clear. Put the couples stuff on hold for a month or two. It never hurts to do couples counselling even if you decide to split because it will help you co-parent your kids.
      In the meantime, continue to post here to help you think things through.

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  10. Oh Coaster--the first few months are the worst (even if you are feeling better) please dont feel bad about feeling bad. there is a sort of rule of thumb that it takes 6 months to a year to decide clearly, and not out of emotion, pain, etc, to know what you really want to do.
    The deal is, if you have an inkling that you want to work this out, give it a try.
    If it doesnt work, you can always decide differently later.
    As to your fears---We all have fears, my biggest was being betrayed again and I am not alone in that fear.

    But what's the deal with your husband moving out before you even found out? because of the fighting? Is he home now?

    What is his fear about the future? some are universal and just part of life and we just have to suck it up. I know when i considered leaving or making him leave it was because i thought that either a) I would badger him daily (instead of talking)with reminders of what he did. At the top of my lungs, I might add. I really thought I would eventually torture him into leaving.
    or b) he might do it again, which i dont think I would have survived.
    But with therapy I sort of got my actions (yelling-throwing things) under control and the thoughts eventually took care of themselves and became less frequest about 6 months out, 6 months--I know it's a long time, but it's normal.
    and the crying, and all the rest of it diminished...but it took time and a ton of communication
    We are now over 14 months out--and totally different. I think it's wise to find a safe place like this site and a counslers office to talk. Friends mean well, but they can be hurtful without knowing it and it really is no ones business except you and your husband's. Keep us posted and share your story here. You sound like a complety normal wounded soul, and you're in like minded company here.

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    1. Thank you for the response its good to know that I am not alone in this and I am not going crazy.
      He still lives on his own and at the moment we are both okay with it. He left because he felt I would throw him out because during our arguments I would tell him to leave if he didn't want to be here. He also felt guilty about what he did and needed time to sort out stuff a figure out if he was going to tell me or not. Glad he told me and I didn't find out from someone else...I give him credit for coming clean. He does answer my questions and feels bad because he did this to me and us. Most days I feel okay my worse days are when I am not working and my mind wonders more hoping that gets better with time.

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  11. This has got to be the hundredth time I have come to this site and have not been able to share my story. I have read posts from other women and none of them seem to apply to me or anything I can relate to. I feel all alone.
    I found out Jan 12 2015 that my husband of 27 years had been having an affair for over 2.5 years and that he had also had two one night stands within the last 7 years. I had no idea. He had ended the affair in May of 2014 but did not tell me until the OW became so desperate to try and win him back that she started to call our house. She had been threatening him that she would tell me for a long time and he did not want to go back to her. He decided to come clean to me so she could no longer hold that over him.
    I feel I have to give him credit for telling me himself instead of me finding out from her or someone else...Does this seem odd? I also give him credit for telling me about the two one night stand as I would have never found out about them as they happened while he was out of town working.
    We are in counseling now. (his idea) He realizes his mistakes and wants to work on our marriage. Are children are grown so he is not doing this for our kids. He also says he never planned on leaving me...He doesn't know why he decided to do what he did.
    I don't know how I should feel and wonder if I am feeling all wrong about this...I have no hatred towards him..I still love him just as much as I always have. I want to make our marriage work. We never quit showing love for each other or stopped doing things and having fun together even while the affair was going on. I am not saying our marriage was perfect as no marriage is but am I supposed to hate him or hate what he did? Should I be angry and want to throw him out? Should I be so willing to deal with everything and move forward with our lives? I know it has only been 2 months since I found out however it has been almost a year since the affair ended so I know for him it is definitely over and he is ready to move on with our lives together. I also still feel I can trust him....Why is it that I feel this way? Has anyone else felt this way or am I weird?
    I hope someone can give me answers or advice.

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    1. Anon - The heart feels what it feels. We all have our own process to go through. Don't feel alone. We have all had our lives turned upside down and been unsure as to how we are "supposed" to feel. There is no playbook for this. If your H is truly remorseful (and it sounds like you feel he is) then do what you think is right for you. Hopefully he understands what he could have lost and how selfish his actions were and that he treats you with more respect in the future. You are right that every marriage has issues, but he chose to run away from those issues with someone else rather than work on them with you. You need to be sure he is committed to this through good times and bad. My marriage was also having issues, but I didn't escape to someone else. I once asked my H "if I had done the same, could you have forgiven me?" He didn't even want to think about that. Just keep everything in perspective and use the counseling to work on both of you. Individual counseling is also very helpful. I didn't think I needed it at first. I wasn't even sure what I would say? I had friends to listen to me so why do I need to go? I didn't do anything wrong. I went anyway. It was the best thing I could have done for myself. It helped me understand all my feelings and needs that I would ignore due to raising kids, working, keeping a household... etc. This blog helps us to know we are all not alone and that we can all survive what we need to survive.

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    2. Anon,
      Julie is right. There is no playbook and expecting yourself to feel a certain way is complicating things more than they already are. You love him, you want to work through this with him, and he's willing. Sounds like you're already further ahead than many who just find out.
      My only caution is to ensure that you're not burying your feelings. That you feel "safe" feeling whatever you might feel on any given day. But if you believe that these are your true feelings, then honour them. Therapy will move along quickly, I think, if you're both clear on the direction you're going.

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    3. Anon: I too searched this site to try to find someone who had a similar situation, a similar fact pattern, in an effort to see what the possibilities were for our specific situation. I'm six months out and still have not found a story like ours. While the details in each story are different, the pain, fear, and uncertainty seem to be universal. We all have work to do to save these marriages and we can all learn from one another.

      Our story: 26 year marriage, we thought it was wonderful, I was busy helping our youngest son prepare for his first year of college and taking care of elderly parents, didn't notice my husband sinking into depression and feeling lost. Husband has three week affair with stranger from Craigslist in August, breaks it off, is fully returned to our marriage when psycho OW decides to call and tell me all about it in September and shatters OUR world.

      Strangely, though completely broken, I didn't hate him. I wished that he had been the one to tell me but it didn't work out that way. After receiving the call, I went home and we just sat there and talked and cried and talked. I didn't scream at him. I felt sorry for him, I could see his shame and his pain.

      I absolutely didn't hate him then, and now 6 months later, I still do not hate him. I'm disappointed and I am incredibly hurt. I will probably never completely trust anyone again. My whole outlook on life has changed. My fairy tale, as I dreamed it, has ended. There are some days when I hit rock bottom and wonder what the hell I'm doing. But, 99% of the time I want to rebuild our marriage. Why? He did make a huge mistake but he realized it and ended it before I knew about it. He was honest about the details. He answered every question, multiple times. His actions since day one displayed an enormous amount of regret, remorse, pain, disappointment. He discussed it with our sons, not only to own what he did but to show them how destructive his choice was in an effort to teach them what NOT to do in their relationships. It took a lot of courage to do that. He tells me everyday that it was his screwup, that he and he alone caused this (though I don't feel that this is entirely his fault). He is a good man who made a mistake. Through all of my pain and tears that thought has remained with me. Even through the uncertainty, pain shopping, the endless questioning, I have always felt it.

      So, in response to your post, I say you don't HAVE to be angry at him, you don't HAVE to hate him. If there is one thing that I have learned here, it's that there is no PROPER formula for how to feel or act. Varying degrees of CRAZY are normal here along with moments of complete calm.

      Move forward but stay alert, be wary. You can move forward and still use what you've learned here to protect yourself.

      Your story is yours and yours alone. No one here on this blog can ever understand your relationship or your husband as you do. The stories here can guide you and help you to protect yourself, but in the end you are the only one who can decide what's right for you.

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    4. RT,
      That was such a beautiful post. You sound like an incredibly strong woman, able to feel compassion right in the midst of your own heartbreak. And it sounds like he's doing everything he can to deserve you.
      Thank-you for sharing that story. I suspect it resonates with more people than you might realize.

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    5. Julie and RT,
      I am in the same emotional boat as you. My husband and I have been together 7 years and went through every major life change you can imagine in a 10 day time span (had our first baby, moved across the country, started new careers). To say that we struggled to cope with all that change is an understatement! Then 4 months later he received some devastating family news that led to us completely cutting ties with his brother and two sisters. His
      Mother betrayed his trust and he couldn't cope. He started drinking (hid it from me) and withdrew. I begged for him to talk
      To me but he wouldn't. I found out month ago that during this time he met with the ow 3 times while drunk and "hooked up" (no actual sex and no emotional ties). The ow was an old family friend whom I have never cared for. Clearly my instincts were right! BUT, while I am so hurt and sad by what happened, he is truly remorseful and has made this situation about helping me heal and showing me he wants to change. We are in counseling, attending church and I have the husband I have always dreamed of having. I love him and our family so much and I never considered giving it up. He came to me at rock bottom and I know he never go back there. I am not angry at him. I don't feel the need to throw him out or rage at him. I totally see where you feel
      Like no one else feels that way! I have read this blog daily and find it to be amazingly
      Comforting, but I too think that I am
      The only one who had this happen and didn't react in anger. It has made me wonder if Something is wrong with me! The truth is I was relieved on d day because everything that had been wrong and the pit in my stomach was finally explained. I realized I wasnt crazy for feeling worried about something unknown. Anyway, please know that while our circumstances Are very different you aren't the only one feeling like its 'wrong' to be 'okay'!! My therapist has told me that by asking myself if my healing is right or wrong I am only making my problems bigger than they are. He tells me to live the marrige I want and not worry about what the rest of the world thinks!

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    6. Anon,
      There is no right "response" to this. Our reaction depends on so many things, not least of which is our personality. I suspect there are many more who didn't respond with anger, at least at first. As long as our experience is that we're valued and heard...

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    7. Anon,
      Let me just tell you this: This is the best website for support. Yes there are other websites that are paid therapists and they are pro-marriage about affairs, but this is the only website that I have found that is normal everyday people who are wonderful, helpful souls who understand. I am a year out and trust me, I have search high and low for all the "right" answers and boy did I run in to a bunch of haters who judge. "Dump him", "Once a cheater, always a cheater", "Contact the OW and let her know your side". Negative patterns and emotions that no ones needs during your time of healing. And that is exactly what it is, your time. You and you alone are judge and jury. You decide what you want. This is your life and you need to be happy, do whatever you want to be happy. Not one other person in this world is living your life, but it is wonderful to come here and be able to talk with those who have been down the same road and worn the same shoes. Please stay on here, talk with "real people" who understand and are so generous with their time. Good luck and I wish you the best.

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  12. I'll admit - I haven't read through all of the stories here - but I have been quite amazed at the simple number of them. Here I thought I was alone. I'm dealing with chaos - on NYE I received a text message from an unknown person informing me the my husband (of 20 years) girlfriend was pregnant and that he has been cheating on me for a few years now. I'm devastated. I had no idea, NONE - that any of this was going on. He has been living a double life and it's all coming to head now. He's very good at this and it's a side of him I never knew was even remotely possible. I feel stupid and foolish. After some counseling and talks we have decided to make our marriage work. We have 3 kids, (1 college, 1 HS and our daughter is in 4th grade). We are a military family and the OW is also military. Sadly being a guard/reserve family, we don't relocate. I've been successful so far dealing with forgiveness, I'm starting to understand what "mid life crisis" is about and have studied it and feel that's what this has been for him. My husband is sexy, confident and "that guy" that is always your friend. Now he's broken and sad and just miserable. (Good right?) LOL He has turned around and now wants nothing more than to see us "Bigger, Better and Stronger" than we ever were. I want that too, he is truly my best friend and I cannot imagine my life without him. And my kids need their dad. But - what the hell do I do about this other kid? First things first, we will get a paternity test to be sure - she's quite a ho from the stories I have been given. We have both been STD tested and that was all fine (thank GOD!). Neither of us want any part of the child - ever. It sounds selfish and horrible but it's how we both feel. She tried to trap him to make him leave me, when it didn't work she arranged for me to find everything out. I know that they do not talk or see each other anymore. We have blocked her in all ways that we can. I feel like I'm rambling....I just don't talk to people about this as none of my friends understand. Some know and they all think I'm nuts for not shooting him instead of loving him. Am I crazy? (Yes!!!) But it's my choice and I believe that nobody is perfect and people make mistakes. This is a pretty big mistake.....Thanks for any and all support in advance.

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    1. Anonymous,

      If after paternity testing, your husband should definitely see a lawyer. Pretty sure the law would say he's liable for child support but I'm not a lawyer. Incredible isn't it that men can do such dumbshit stuff? A friend of mine whose husband was also a pilot answered the phone one day only to hear from a ten yr old child asking for her daddy. Turns out the smart likeable" that guy" pilot forgot to use a condone and forgot to tell his wife about his Flight attendant and the baby they had. And yes, he had to pay child support and gave the kid a college Ed. The wife stayed and the OW didn't get the pension. In my case, my husband also didn't use a condom but didn't get caught. But I got an HPV that may have caused the Cancer I got a few yrs ago. Swell, huh?

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    2. I'm so sorry for what you're going through. And yes, another child certainly complicates things. Absolutely get the paternity test. If he is the father, then he is responsible financially. And I think it's important to be prepared for him to change his mind about the child at some point. He might not...but he might so it's important for you two to anticipate that.
      I hope you're both in counselling to help you work through this. And I'm so glad you found us.

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  13. Hello, I am 9 months since d-day. My first gut instinct started 10 months prior up until d-day I must have been in denial. I repeatedly asked my husband to focus on us and stop allowing her to affect us but he was "lost". Supposedly they only slept together 1x but I have a feeling it was more and it was going to go a lot further if I didn't find out. They work together and have continued to since d-day. He is her boss. I am still to this day very irrational, my mind won't shut off and it has affected my health to the point of needing to see a psychiatrist. I've been in weekly therapy since my gut instict flared. It turned out I was right all along. i can't unsee the texts, emails, or ignore the many other ways they connected. I'm "supposed" to be past it by now he says. I'm supposed to "trust" him now he says. He has lied over and over so now I don't believe anything he tells me. I had to hear "it's over I don't have any feelings for her anymore". Her life went on as normal, unaffected while my marriage and family desroyed. Has anyone ever been in a situation where they still worked together? He "has" to interact with her as her boss but I feel the first thing to do was cut off all contact. I am in such a deep depression, I started to drink, cut, take pills to numb. We fight daily. Some of our fights got physical 3x. I know I could've handled things better but he did not treat me well after d-day and it took months for him to realized he didn't want to lose me. I am so stuck. We've been together 30+ years. Lost and confused. KN

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    1. Hi Anon,
      Have you read any books on Affair Recovery. They all pretty much say the same thing. I will paraphrase:

      -NO CONTACT- if he is her boss, he could be liable for a lawsuit. He needs to find another job. Or speak to his boss about the situation. Can he transfer?
      -If is answer to your pain is "you should be over this by now." Then he is not over it, he is still vulnerable to picking things up with her and someone else.
      -He needs to provide full disclosure and answer all your questions. Best done in a therapists office to keep it safe and help you with the trauma.

      All of that is just the tip of the ice berg of recovery. If you two haven't gotten past that, then you cannot heal your marraige. If he cannot get on board with that, you can chose to stay with him or you can chose to move on. My best advice is that you need to put yourself and your needs first, because he can't. Focus on doing things that are promoting your healing---not acting out by drinking or taking pills. Then you might be less confused about what to do.

      -MBS

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    2. KN,
      Please please PLEASE get support for yourself to stop the self-harm. I know how overwhelming those feelings can be and the only relief seems to be to hurt ourselves or numb ourselves. You need self-care. You need compassion. You need to know that this pain will end. It will, I promise.
      What MBS has written above is wise and true.
      But your first step, I believe, is to find yourself some in-real-life support from a therapist.

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    3. KN, your story sounds much like mine. My husband was her boss, 15 years her senior, and he didn't fire her right after I found out because he said he didn't know how to "replace her"! WTF??? He had no trouble "replacing" me, though, did he? It's been 1 year and 22 months since I found out and I can't get through it because every time he "tells me everything", I find out something else and I'm right back to square one so it's as if it just happened and I feel betrayed once again. Still, he thinks it's been "long enough" and I should be over it by now but the constant lies keep me in this perpetual state of disbelief and I don't believe a word he says even though his actions are that of a man who loves me and wants our marriage to work, I can't seem to appreciate it because I'm waiting for the "next truth" to come up. I also can't seem to understand why he, or any of these men, for that matter, just do whatever they want, knowing it's wrong, and then after they completely dismantle the marriage, decide, "oh, yeah, I DO love you and want a better marriage"... um, why the hell didn't they think of that in the first place???????? Perhaps I'm too simple minded, but that's where I get stuck. It's like, oh, now that I need therapy and I've lost everything that I wanted out of this marriage, NOW you wanna work on it??? Shouldn't you have worked on it prior to the affair? These men made conscience choices to lie and to cheat, knowing full well that it's wrong and that it would hurt us and they just didn't care. I'm stuck there. We teach our children to make good choices, to be kind, to be respectful, to treat others the way we want to be treated...so why did he think it was okay to do this to me and risk our family? What kind of role model is he and why would I want that for my boys? I've tried, but I can't figure out how to be okay with it. We've gone to counseling, I've gone alone...the bottom line is that it's up to me to just get over it because we can't move forward if I don't and so it's on me to clean up his mess and that's a huge responsibility. I'm mad that this is my life now and I'm mad at how he treated me after I found out and that I'm the one who has to "get over it" and deal with the hurt and the anxiety and everything that comes with the aftermath of HIS actions. She finally left the job 5 months after I found out. He says he fired her, she says she quit. Either way, it just showed me that he couldn't bare to let her go right away and it makes me feel like yesterday's left overs. So now, after much time has passed, and now that he's being helpful and attentive and trying to show me that he loves me, I just can't seem to accept it because of how it went down when I found out and for me, it just took him too long to realize what I meant to him and I'm so hurt that he needed to be with someone else to know that he loves me, that after 12 years together, he didn't just know that I was the one he wanted to be with, through better and through worse. I also felt like I could've "handled things better", but really, the fact that I didn't kill them both speaks volumes for how I handled it!! I'm so sorry that you are feeling all of this, KN... I wish I could offer some advice but I'm in the EXACT same boat so if nothing else, at least you know you aren't alone. Tessa

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  14. I am 6.5 months post d day...
    Lately, ive been feeling as though i have been withdrawing from my relationship with my husband. Things were going great, and something triggered me again (not us, hearing stories of others close to us). It brought back all of the horrible, debilitating feelings i had and thought i was overcoming. I look at my husband and feel betrayed, lonely and hurt. Like the pain began all over again. We had made enourmous strides in fixing our relationship prior to this news... im confused. He did nothing wrong (this time ) but i feel the hatred again. I look at him, and although i love him, i feel like he did this to me all over again. How can i approach him about my feelings, when he did nothing wrong, and IS doing everything right? clearly still extremely hurt. the memories are overcoming me right now.

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    1. I agree with Lynn Pain below. You're feelings are still raw. He needs to be able to hear them and respond with support and compassion. That's how you rebuild a marriage. By consistently sharing with him when you're wounded and by him being able to respond with healing. It's not a quick fix. You'll cycle in and out of anger and pain. You will continue to have triggers. It's worth developing a plan for those inevitable triggers so that he doesn't feel blindsided by your anger. Those who heal most fully from this are those who support each other through it.

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  15. To 6.5 months,
    It is still to early for you to smooth out. It is your heart break and it is your healing. If he wants you he will ride on the roller coaster with you. I had a loop in my head of movies, thoughts and how could you do this to me and I'm 15 months out. Healing takes so much longer and its normal for you to be on the roller coaster of emotion. I asked my husband to read articles from this site so he could understand what it is like for me, that was my approach to let him know. What you are going through is what I went through. Give yourself time and do what helps you. It is like an inoperative cancer never goes away just goes in remission.

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  16. I am somewhat of a rare breed here as 99% are women but I'm sure just as many men are cheated on and live in a loveless marriage , in my case we were married for 18 years with 5 children from 3 to 15 and I thought happily married when I found out that my wife was having an affair with a co-worker
    When I presented her with the evidence all she said was " yes , I'm having an affair and I don't want to talk about it " I was shattered , I could not believe that she could do this to me after all we had shared over our 18 years of marriage . I asked her when she realized that she no longer loved me and she refused to answer , I asked her when she realized that she loved the OM and she refused to answer . I could not believe that I was so dumb and stupid that I believed her lies when she said " we are so busy at work I have to work back 2 or 3 nights a week "
    The sad thing for her was about a week after my D day his wife found out about their affair , he was the one that was dumb because he was taking her back to his house and they got caught together by his wife . His wife forced him to leave their work immediately , end their affair immediately , not even a kiss goodbye My wife blamed me for telling his wife which I didn't do , I have never meet either the OM or his wife but the night he ended their affair she came home and she said " You have destroyed the only real love I have ever had , I will never forgive you for it " and she moved out of our bedroom and into a spared room . This happened 12 years ago and we have shared a house with our children but not a bedroom all those years . Over the next 2 or 3 months after my D day I did find out a few things about her affair , she was 14 years older than him , about 3 months before my D day she became pregnant to him and had an abortion because she was unsure who the father was , I also found out that they meet up a few times after her affair had supposed to have ended
    Over the last 12 years every time we have a disagreement , no matter what it is about she reminds me that I destroyed her only real love , I'm sure she still loves him , I have realized after my D day that for as long as her affair had lasted the foundation of our marriage was based on unfaithfulness , lies and secrets and I could never compete with the excitement and passion that is experienced during an affair .
    I have never had any thoughts of getting a divorce because I have never thought about another relationship because I know I could never trust another woman , I know that is unfair but my trust in women is completely destroyed
    Maybe there is someone here who can explain to me how someone who loves a partner for so long can so easily fall in love with someone else so quickly than when that new relationship is over believe that they can love their original partner as if nothing has happened
    All I am waiting for is the time that our youngest child has moved on with her life as she is the only one left at home , the other 4 had all moved out either married or sharing with someone and seem to be leading happy and successful lives . My plan is as soon as this happens I will sell our home , half the money between my wife and myself and get on with the next part of my life what ever that is . I have no idea what plans my wife has for the future because we never discuss anything outside the children and sadly I couldn't care less what she does
    Thanks for reading

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    1. You deserve some happiness. It sounds like you have a plan. How old is your youngest child? Time goes by you cannot get back. It is obvious the OM dropped your wife like a hot rock. If your going your own way, I would remind her from time to time YOU didn't ruin this for her. The other OM dropped her. If the OM really wanted to be with her he would but guess what nobody really wants her. That says everything.

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    2. Hi Lynn

      As I said below , our youngest will turn 16 this year so I have about 3 years to wait , I do feel sorry for her that he never loved her like she loved him but it was her choice to start her affair . What has crossed my mind since finding this site and reading a number of posts is that I wonder what would have happened if my wife had been totally honest with me and genuinely sorry for what she did , would we have been able to work through all our issues and obviously i contributed to some of them , with any relationship it is 50/50 the good and the bad so I do accept some of the responsibility but she should have come to me and told me what she felt was lacking in our marriage for her and not just run off and jump into bed with the first man she was infatuated with
      As regards reminding her that I didn't ruin our marriage , her belief still is that I ruined the only real love she had even after 12 years she still believes that so there is no chance she would accept that I didn't ruin it for her . When the time comes I certainly will tell her what I'm planning before they put the for sale sign up at least I can look myself i the mirror and know that I have been honest with her

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    3. Gentle man,
      I am so so sorry for all the pain you've gone through. And I'm doubly sorry that you've had to go through it alone.
      Your wife is cruel and, frankly, doesn't deserve you. She is a lost and mixed up person who is not content with ruining her own life, she feels compelled to pull you into it. She made the choice to cheat and her affair partner made the choice to throw her under the bus when it was exposed. At NO point, even if you had told the other spouse, are YOU to blame for HER choice.
      I suspect this isn't the only area of your marriage in which she's made unilateral decisions. I absolutely urge you to get yourself to a counsellor who can help you build up your own self-respect and develop some very clear boundaries around the treatment you insist upon from other people. You do NOT have to tolerate her cruelty. It will not be easy but you would do yourself a whole lot of good (and likely her, too) to begin making it clear that you will not listen to her cruelty and blame-shifting. SHE is to blame for what happened, not you and you do not need to put up with that any longer.
      But start with therapy. Start with finding someone who can validate how incredibly strong you've been to endure so much pain but that it's time to begin sifting through it and figuring out how you're going to live the rest of your life in a way that's open-hearted. Whether or not you choose to ever give another woman the chance the love you the way you deserve is up to you. But please know that there are many many women out there who are disgusted by your wife's behaviour.

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    4. Hi Elle
      Firstly we did try counseling early on but after a few visits my wife stopped because she said the counselor was taking my side all the time but I continued to go and received a lot of help from her . One thing I learnt was that I can look myself in the mirror every morning I shave and know that my children love me and that I have done the best job I could at being a parent , something my dad told me when I was young was " If you only do one thing in your life that is the best job you can do , be the best dad you can " and I have never forgotten that
      Maybe I did focus too much on the children and I forgot about my wife but that certainly doesn't excuse her for what she did . In reading so many posts here what I can not understand is how so many people can destroy so much love they shared with their wife/husband for a few minutes of excitement and passion with someone else , is that all the love , respect , honesty , friendship we shared is WORTH to them
      PS. Thank you so much for this site , I can see that it is such a great help to so many people suffering from infidelity .

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    5. You, sir, are a dying breed. I agree with Elle that your wife's behavior is disgusting and I commend you for your strength to go through this for the sake of your children, but you absolutely deserve better...we all do. If my husband were half the man you seem to be, I'd be very happy. You said exactly what I say every time I talk about my husband's affair (also with someone 15 years younger)... "how could you destroy the years of love, respect and friendship we shared for a short period of "newness"?... I can never compete with "new" because we're 14 years into this, and what saddens me is that I didn't know that I had to... I thought the 14 years of real life meant more than any "new' relationship ever could. I guess I was wrong.
      I thought about going to a local support group in the Tampa area when I found this site and it's been my lifeline when I am emotional at all different times of day and night (something a physical support group that meets at certain times just couldn't do for me) so I'm glad you found this site, it's not always easy to take the advice if you're just not at "that place", but it does help to not feel so alone and so damn crazy! :-/

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    6. Hi ladies ,
      Thank you for your comments
      Maybe there is someone here that can help me with advise on how I might be able to sort out all the problems between my children and their mum , I can accept that my wife and I rarely speak and we have functioned well enough to support our children over the last 12 years but even though we have lived together there has always been friction between my wife and our children since her affair
      A couple of months ago my DIL ( son's wife ) called me to invite me to her birthday party but told me that my son said " Don't bring mum , she is not welcome in my house " so I went on my own and felt guilty because I knew she was aware where I was going and why
      It's not as bad with our daughters but the 3 that live away from home have little contact with their mother but they call me every few days and invite me to different functions on a regular basis without inviting their mother and It certainly crosses my mind what will happen to her in the future when I do sell the family home and move on
      I certainly don't want anyone to think that I'm having second thoughts about my future but I certainly don't want to do anything that would cause my wife suffer , at least having me here she has someone to abuse from time to time and I guess remind her on what she feels she missed out on with her lover

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    7. Hi Ladies
      PS My name is Alan , I think it is time for me to be on a first name basis

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    8. Hi Elle
      On reading the posts I'm amazed at the similarity of other partners when it comes to lying , for me this was as bad as the unfaithfulness , LYING , day after day .
      My D day , was that I was in the kitchen Saturday morning and wife was showering , her phone was on the charger obviously not expecting a message when she got a text message " Hi honey , I really miss you and I can't wait till Tuesday night , I'm free this afternoon , I want to see you , I know how much you love us to xxxx together , call me as soon as you can . Jeff "
      I got such a shock to realize what was going on but I got our camera and took a photo of her phone screen so you could read the text and said nothing . Then at lunch my wife said " I'm going to our local shopping center after lunch " and about 1.30 she left . I knew of a Jeff that my wife worked with so checked the phone book and got an address , later packed the children in the car and drove to this address about 10 minutes for our home and guess what , yes , my wife's car was parked 2 doors from his house
      That afternoon I got my wife to tell me all about her shopping trip which she was happy to do then that night after the children were all in bed I showed her the photo of the text message and for an instant she looked like a rabbit in the headlights then she looked me straight in the eye and said " It must have been sent to a wrong number " then I told her about driving down his street and seeing her car there . she said " No it wasn't my car I was shopping " when I told her I had stopped and checked the licence plate , it was only then that she knew the game was up and she said " Yes I'm having an affair and I don't want to talk about it "
      I read so many times that unfaithful partners lie to protect us , what BS they only lie to protect themselves and their other partner , if they were protecting us they wouldn't be having an affair , It's the lies and the secrets that destroys a marriage just as much as the unfaithfulness if not more
      Just my thoughts
      Alan

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    9. Alan,
      You're so right. It is the lies and deception that creates at least as much, if not more, damage than the sexual infidelity. And it's the lies and deception that is so hard to heal from.
      Re. your question re. how to heal the relationship between your kids and their mum. I honestly don't think you can, nor do I think it's up to you. I think a parent should always refrain from bad-mouthing another spouse, but apart from that, you can't change how they feel about their mother's less-than-admirable behaviour. You might encourage them to seek counselling to help them come to terms with the impact on their own worldview -- relationship with a mom is such a primal thing -- but it's their decision whether they proceed with that.
      I'm curious though. Given that your and your wife's contentious relationship seems an open secret, why bother staying together for your younger daughter? Wouldn't an "amicable" divorce be better for all involved? Just curious.

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    10. Elle
      You must have your own comedy show on TV , my wife has never heard of the word " amicable " , I don't know where your blog originates from but in our country we have " no fault divorce " but as soon as it goes to court it is always the man's fault , at best I could hope for is a 40/60 split financially and as I run small business i would have to sell it , plus my house , which I bought before we married so it's mine by law as long as we stay married , plus my pension scheme and to top all that my wife would get custody of our daughter till she turns 18 and then she can decide when I can see her , if she said in court that there has been abuse even without evidence I never get to see her till she is 18 so as you can see an AMICABLE divorce is not an option till I'm ready to retire which I am planning to do in as soon as my daughter is ready to move on . I'm telling you not even GOD could negotiate an amicable divorce with my wife , she would accuse him of destroying her life and make him pay .
      So we continue to live our lives quite separately , go out separately , have our own relationships separately and it works the best it can for now , I must say I'm really looking forward to when I do drop the bomb shell , present her with divorce papers , sell the house , and move on from her .

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    11. Elle
      I know my situation is different from most here , and this is a philosophical discussion as much as anything . It not only applies to a lot of your blog members but with most of the other web sites and books written about infidelity that rebuilding one's marriage seems to be a choice that most people take . I find it interesting that there are a lot of people who have written that an affair within a marriage can even make it stronger , which is strange to me when the same people suggest that we should eventually forgive but we will never forget what our partner did to our marriage
      I know I'm very much of a concrete thinker , I have worked in the scientific field all my life so everything needs to have an explanation for it to work . I look at our marriage and for the first 18 years we seemed to share everything together then we had our D day . I could see that for probably 6 months before we had been living a lie , my wife had been lying to me morning and night everyday over that 6 months keeping secrets from me every day for that 6 months . For whatever period it was that my Wife's affair lasted the foundation of our marriage was built of unfaithfulness , lies and secrets . I know that after D day I could never imagine being intimate with my wife again after knowing what she shared with her OM . I have looked back at the marriage vows we wrote together and the first promise was " Before God and our families I promise to speak the truth to you in love " . Maybe it's an age thing or maybe I'm just being too concerned about the money I would loose with a divorce before I'm ready but I'm curious to learn how people rebuild trust in their partner after it has been destroyed by an affair , how does one become trusting enough to allow the adulterous partner back in their life .
      Maybe you can shed so light on these issues
      Alan

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  17. Anon this is no way to live. How long until your daughter is grown and out? I say it to every woman here. Not your fault and also we all deserve happiness. I wish you would have found this site years ago. What your "wife" has done and reminds you of whenever she can is unbearably cruel.

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  18. Coaster. I had days out of the blue for 10 months which floored me You are normal (not that that makes it easier). And to misquote Elle a bit I'm sure "what that woman has? You don't want it". Plus she has problems. Probably more than you know. We just don't get to see them (Too bad because I would love to see them too) Go easy on yourself. 3 months things are still very fresh and very painful We got you!

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  19. Hi Steam
    You are right , it saddens me to think we have both wasted the last 12 years , I wished he had loved her like she loved him but obviously he was just after a bit on the side because as soon as his wife found out he dumped her and ran back to his wife. Given the fact that I had 5 young children I felt it was the only thing I could do , when he dumped her she was never going to leave and I was never going to give up my home that I had worked so hard over 20 years to buy . Our youngest will turn 16 this year so I guess I'm looking at another 2 to 4 years going on the older 4 . Interestingly it was my wife's birthday on the 16th of March , she turned 56 and yes I'm 58 , that was what got me really thinking about my situation and how I found this site and yes I wish I had found it sooner as well . When I found out about her affair she was 44 and I was 46 so there was no way I was ever going to compete with her 30 year old lover

    One thing that doesn't help is from time to time I suggest that she writes a book on vitriol , she is a past master at it , I've had every one in the book " You have always been a lousy lover " etc, etc , .In the first few years of our separation she did really mess with my self esteem but now I just dismiss her vitriol . I don't suggest that I'm perfect by any means but I really did try my best during the first 18 years of our marriage given that we had 5 children over that time but that was never enough for her , she just needed a younger man , sadly she picked the wrong one and as so many people say , " you can only work on yourself , we have no control what other people do " " change yourself and you can change the world " etc .

    In the early years of our separation , between 2 and 4 years after D day i did have 2 relationships , both lasted about 2 months but I knew I was no being honest with these 2 women because I could not trust them , there was nothing they ever did that made me feel that way it was all my fault , I just couldn't trust them and In the end I had to be honest with them and end it
    Look it is not as bad as it sounds , we live totally separate lives , we both work , go out when we want to no questions asked and no lies told , the 3 of us have dinner together just about every night and we work around anything else where we might have to be together , we each have a TV etc so we can avoid each other most of the time . Three of the older children still live in the same city as us but sadly only one of them called in for their mother's birthday , they all know about our situation and the cause , sadly for her our son hates her for what she did and refuses to talk to her , he and I still spend a lot of time together . I visit he and his wife once or twice a week and I have tried to get him to forgive his mum but he refuses , ( I think sometimes he has caught the vitriol bug from his mum because of some of the names he calls her )

    So that's about it , I have probably 3 or 4 years to wait then I off , as they say " you only get about 16 years for murder "

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    1. Anon,

      Your story makes me really sad, but not for the reasons you would think. In your story, I see so much of myself. The decision to stay in a marriage for the sake of the children. It helped that my husband traveled of course, so we only really had a few nights a month where I had to pretend we were an intact family. And actually focusing on raising the children allowed me to ignore the pain much of the time. Except the nights. Those were the hardest cause we did share a bed due to simply not having enough bedrooms. Of course my story is different simply because my husband wanted to repair the damage done by the two flight attendants. He really did try but there were a lot of triggers thanks to the second flight attendant being a tattle tale. Like you I planned to leave when our youngest went off. But then life was better until I got Cancer. My husband was a saint in helping me recover from the side effects of surgery and radiation but I found some research that suggested my Cancer may have resulted from the STD he gave me. Swell, huh. That is a staggering thought to think you may have given someone Cancer. You don't don't of course. But with therapy, I've accepted at least on good days you can't get back that which is lost. You just can't. So your decision to stay and lead separate lives isn't a bad one if it works for you. But. Your wife certainly doesn't have the right to make you miserable. You are a human being. She did a crappy thing and honestly she should be grateful that you were willing not to break up your family in my opinion. Look around, how many families deal with children going to mom's one weekend and dad's the next? Teens especially don't like that. They want to where their friends live. But the coldness of your family. Yeah, that's the side effect that keeps on giving. As my therapist says, we all get something to deal with in life. Wishing you the best possible outcome in the yrs ahead.

      Delete
  20. I have been in the betrayed wives club quite a while ,posted as anonymous, I have been in and out of hell for two years now.
    I made massive head-roads into getting to a better place with your help..I felt SO strong after a terrible ordeal i will give as brief as possible re cap.
    I found out about OW by accidentally overhearing him talking to her on "hands free" whilst driving away from her. I heard that they had been in bed all afternoon and he should be taking HER out not going home to me ,then his declaration of undying love for her.
    The s***t hit the fan because i lost control, i was so shocked as after 45 years married i knew he was unhappy living with our 35 year old son who is so controlling. I never thought we were in trouble as a couple,just as a family.
    He chose to stay and try to get back to good but could or would not leave OW who rang and tormented me ,pressurized him. He gave in and continued their affair ,he showed me porno close up photos taken by them in mid intercourse, even close ups of his penis inside her and oral sex ,outdoor sex etc. He showed me the photos to explain it was Just sex. but then 6 months later we were holiday abroad he collapsed was rushed into hospital,his phone kept on beep beeping, they asked me to switch it off .It was OW "why are you not reply, do you still love me ,all i can think about is you x x x i wish you would stop spending money on that bitch ! we are going to need it for our new life,I could be ALREADY pregnant having that beautiful little girl she could not give you!!!!!"
    I read his previous replies and they were full of" love ya baby you know i love you your my girl!!! "
    I was so gutted i took an overdose which i survived by inches, was in intensive care for ages. Still he did not give her up but would make love to me saying "You know It is YOU i love,hang in there baby, she will get the message one day"
    "Not if you keep F*****g her and telling her she is your girl"!!!! I replied
    To be honest i lost all my dignity, my belief in myself and only saw his lies
    1 he had a vasectomy 38 years ago is 70 next year.does not ,can not make babies!!
    2,he told me the more she nagged the more he spent on me.(fact he did)
    3 He lied to us both repeatedly
    I told OW in one of her terrible phone calls from HIS phone!!that he had shown me the photos and she had a fatter belly and saggy t*ts than me. I threw such filth back at her, I am ashamed to say because i am a 66 year old slim grandmother! but every time she laughed she told me i was a fat old has been and to leave them to be happy as it was what her not me he wanted.
    He told me the opposite,Yet blames ME for why he needed her, she gave him her undivided attention whilst i was torn between him and our son ! I thought we had got through it as eventually he appeared to leave her ,but is always texting another woman now .on holiday last week he lay stark naked waiting for me having a shower we had had a wonderful romantic meal then a fantastic walk in the moonlight star gazing .he was lay there sharing the experience with yet another student again in her 40s as was the last one.
    Sadly i broke again and descended into hell once again. I have been having counseling for the whole time off and on. Him and his OW are in that very profession so have little faith i am afraid.
    I am like a frightened bunny ,hiding from every one even myself. Am i a weak paranoid stupid woman as he calls me? He says these woman are just his friends and he is a free man to have whoever he wants as friends. He has password protected phone and computer tells me i either trust him or F**k off
    i needed once again to get this off my chest....Sorry its so long

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    1. Anonymous,
      I am so incredibly sorry for the hell that this man is putting you through. What he is doing is outright emotional abuse. It is cruel and heartless. I am honestly appalled.
      What I want you to recognize, however, is that you are letting him. You know that he's seeing other people. He's lied to you, he lies to them, and then he accuses you of being paranoid? You're being realistic. Of course, your frightened. The person who should be your friend is completely messing with your head. You need to get yourself to a therapist who can help you find a way out of this. There is something wrong with a person who can be so cruel and then blame you for it.
      You are NOT weak. You are incredibly strong and incredibly brave and you are going to save yourself with that strength. You are worth saving. Him? Not so much.

      Delete
  21. Anon,

    OMG, this man is so abusive! If you can find a therapist you trust, please go so you don't hurt yourself. I actually did come close to taking some pills years ago when I was a little past Dday, but I don't want to leave that legacy to my children. I would not do to them what my father did to me. When I was five, he slashed his wrists. I can still see him coming out of the bathroom with blood dripping from his arms. As a child, i didn't understand you can't die from cut wrists but it still is in my head. But the most important thing I can tell you is this, NO person on this earth is worth dying for. Absolutely no one! And the other thing is that feelings change. What you feel today is probably not what you feel a few months from today. You have grandchildren, so do I. Let's leave them good memories of us. They will be proud of you certainly not grandpa!

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  22. Thank you so much Elle, I really was doing so well. I am having on line therapy because husband and OW are therapists i simply cannot stop worrying that it is HER on line but i am so frightened of going out at times. I feel such a mess.
    He yells and shouts tells me I have given him ENOUGH grief over OW if I do not shut up he is going to contact her again.
    Keeps saying if I had not sidelined him i would never have had him do this. He actually believes that he is the victim.
    I know it must be difficult to believe but i look at him and love him want us to be happy
    I told him we need a fresh beginning to begin again.
    He refuses tells me to get over myself.I am trying honestly but the images of those photos burst in my head like a bomb.
    I relax then he has yet another best girl friend just mates.He gets SO angry when i ask if she knows there is no more than friendship on offer.
    Thank you for listening you really are a help. I have little money of my own but will donate whatever whenever i can.
    Thank you...my real name is Polly

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    1. Polly,
      Your husband and the OW are therapists?? This is beyond the pale. Both need to have their licences revoked immediately.
      What is your therapist telling you? Honey, there's no way you'd be putting up with less of abuse unless you've had a lifetime being trained to put up with it. THIS IS YOUR WAKEUP CALL. This is your chance to say "enough". This is your chance to refuse to tolerate any more cruelty and unkindness. It's your chance to save yourself. Please know that you are worth so much more than this. I know you want to be happy with him. But he's making it clear that HIS happiness depends on your misery. And that's not okay. That's nothing you should ever agree to.
      Please...tell us what your therapist is telling you. Do you feel as if it's helping? At some point, you're going to have to make the choice to either stay knowing that this is all you're ever going to have -- a husband who has so little respect for you (and, frankly, for himself), or making the choice to save yourself. Life can offer you so much more than you have but you have to walk toward it.

      Delete
    2. Whoops, that sentence should have read: "there's no way you would be putting up with this level of abuse unless you've had a lifetime being trained to put up with it."
      As for donating, don't ever feel obliged to give what you don't have. Your first loyalty must always be to yourself. Maybe this is a good place to begin learning that lesson. Let us help you without you feeling like you owe anything in return. Simply share your hard-won wisdom once you've learned to care for yourself.

      Delete
    3. Hi Polly
      I know after my marriage ended the way it did i probably am not the one who should be offering comment but firstly your husband showing you photos like that is an absolute disgrace , I cannot believe that any man could be that cruel .
      After my 12 year mess I have become a bit of a backyard psychologist reading everything I can and studying part time at one of our local collages . It certainly appears to me that your husband is suffering from a serious personality disorder ( narcissistic personality disorder/ anti social personality disorder ) , this is certainly not an excuse for his behavior but without long term treatment he will never change
      You must really try to get the help you need and to protect yourself from the abuse you are suffering , what he is doing is criminal , there maybe actions you can take through the police/courts , eg to have him removed from your home for a while to give yourself some space to work through this , that might even show him that you are serious and get the help he needs

      Delete
    4. Polly,

      Your husband's actions with the pictures is clearly evil! Sorry if that sounds judgmental but the thought of it makes me wants to gag. What kind of man does that? One who hates women it would seem and loves to be in control of course. My therapist said that abuse is generational. We are taught these patterns in childhood and tend to repeat them unless we get therapy. But even then the patterns may get weaker but still repeat. if I were you, I would make a plan to leave if you can. It's not my place to say it, but I would. If he hits you is it any more damaging then the things he has already done? Verbal abuse can be just as ugly as physical. Please protect yourself and never apologize for cursing any of this. Your husband seems very good at manipulation.

      Delete
  23. I try not to give drastic advice but if your husband wants you to F off. I would get the F out and takin him for F-ing everything he's got. He is abusive, controlling and convincing you you are weak and paranoid. Prove him wrong.

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  24. Hey Polly,
    He is showing you who he is--so believe him.
    Your options are to keep subjecting yourself to his abuse and let yourself live like this. Or find a new path where you put yourself first and not give up on yourself. Of course it is absolutely horribly that the man you thought would be there for you is not, but you can't keep expecting that he will. Don't let fear guide you.

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  25. I am sorry Polly but I remember your story from before and remember him whipping out the pictures to "prove" it was "only" sexual as if that's somthing to be proud of. I can't undrstsnd why he would do that to you. Or anything else for that matter. It is one thing to mess up as he has but
    to repeatedly put you to blame and threaten to go back if you bring it up?
    Sorry he's Ridiculous and other words I wont use here. What does your therapist say?

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    1. Thank you all very much. I do listen,honestly i do. I was raised by a teenage heavy drinking verbally abusive father.I learned from very young to keep my head down.I think i met my husband at 16 and thought he was wonderful, the polar opposite of my angry,impatient name calling father.
      One therapist told me that as he was so young when we met and had just lost his very elderly father, he learned to be a man at my fathers knee !!!
      I suppose in a way i keep my head down still. I always knew that he was spoiled and needed a lot of attention.I was always willing to give it to him.Many times in our long life together he has showed himself up as a baby.Like the time I had our first child ,I got preaclampsia and was in intensive care for a week. the baby was fine but i not so it took a few weeks to recover.Once home i had of course to nurse our child and was shocked when he moved out of our bedroom telling me that he was ignored and i was obsessed with our tiny son !!!! it took some cajoling to make him feel better.
      So in a way i do think i am partly to blame as two of the most important men in my world have said the most cruel things to me from ugly, thick,stupid annoying and far worse. I suppose i began to believe that i am the common denominator in the end.
      My husband has lived under intense pressure at work and has a very short fuse.I look at him and still love him even though i feel that he has some mental illness as he cannot often remember what he said to me.
      He is a good looking man even now and loves being up on a pedestal
      In a way i truly believe that i am stronger and more intelligent than him and certainly look years younger than he does.Most people tell me that he obviously adores me !!!!! and is always struggling to be as popular as i am (i am kind and listen well that is all) not a mother Teresa type.
      All my therapists have said much the same as you all have.I am with Relate right now. I am just loyal and gentle cannot say the things he does (he swears violently when mad) so name calling is on a totally different level,Phew!!
      The trouble is for 66 years men have been emotionally and verbally abusive.so in a way i have trained a long while for this and still love both of them !!!!! Polly .

      Delete
  26. My name is Anna. My husband and I are both 44, we have been a couple for 23 years and married for 18. We have two wonderful, brilliant children: a son, 15, who has autism, and a daughter, 11, who doesn't.

    D-day was three months ago, and I am truly stuck.

    You see, my D-day was also my husband's D-day. His affair lasted nearly 5 years. They texted for several hours every single day, and they spent a lot of time together every time he went on a business trip to her country, several weeks per year. During this whole time they had dreamed and planned for him to divorce me and marry her, but he kept putting it off. Eventually OW grew tired of waiting and started dating other men behind my husband's back. She went as far as getting engaged before she told my husband it was over between them, and in his D-day shock he turned to me FOR COMFORT AND SUPPORT!!!!!!

    This has got to be the worst way ever to find out your husband has been cheating.

    He had sworn to me so many times that he was only texting with a lot of different friends and business associates (and he shamed me for being jealous and distrustful), and of course I only knew what he told me about his business trips. I was so blindsided when he dumped this on me that instead of raging and crying, I became his amateur therapist.

    There just hasn't been room for me and my D-day trauma. This is all about him, his loss, his pain, his grief, his love for her and his sense of betrayal. As soon as I show that I am hurt or upset he gets really angry. In his mind this is all my fault. If it hadn't been for me he would have been happy with his true love right now!

    But then he started thinking that if he couldn't have his love, then maybe we should try and fix our marriage. Divorce is hard work, and it would be pointless to upset the children unnecessarily. Of course this was humiliating, but I was hopeful. Even though we had been like roommates ever since the pressures of raising our son had come between us, I still loved him. We had had a pleasant, comfortable life together, and I knew that all this was a chance to rekindle our closeness again after years of friendly distance.

    Except he refuses to be open and honest - he is still trickling out the bodyblows. No point in stirring up what is past, now we have to move on!

    And he absolutely refuses to stop contact with OW. She wants to stay friends, and so does he. Sure, she betrayed him, but didn't he betray her first, by not divorcing me? Forgive and forget, and anyway, he is over her now and I have to respect that she has been his closest friend and confidante ever since they met! How can I be so selfish as to ask him to give that up, especially now that he is already so miserable?

    Intellectually, my husband knows that what he did was wrong, but deep down he still feels that it wasn't so bad, that he deserved this "happiness" in his boring life, that since he didn't divorce me I wasn't really hurt by his affair, and that I am overreacting. He has no understanding whatsoever that he has destroyed the very foundations of my world. I have all the usual D-day PTSD, just as he has. He just doesn't think that mine are valid, since according to him I didn't lose anything.

    All the experts say that when the cheater insists on staying friends, you have to draw a line and stick to it. The thing is, whenever I try to make any rules, his answer is that if I can't accept his terms, then we divorce.

    And I can't divorce. I can't even make a credible threat to separate.

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  27. Anna continued:

    Our son has needed a LOT of care. It gradually became clear that we couldn't both keep our careers, and since my husband made much, much more money than I did, the choices were obvious. I haven't had more than a symbolic income for years, and there is no realistic way for me to have a proper job with a livable wage in the forseeable future. Here in Sweden, alimony isn't a thing, since stay-at-home moms are an anomaly. We have easy access to quality affordable daycare (for children without autism) so every adult is expected to support him- or herself and most people do. I am totally dependent on my husband. He is if not happy, then at least content to keep sharing our joint accounts, but only as long as we are married, and only if I don't make too much trouble.

    It's only been three months since D-day. He is still deep in his trauma. I'm not surprised that he doesn't have the capacity to feel empathy, especially since it would mean that he would have to face the magnitude of what he has done.

    We are going to counselling, but the three sessions we have had so far have been mostly about him and his feelings about OW. The counsellor expresses her concern for me and my health every time, and she tries to help him see my side of this, but he just isn't ready.

    He doesn't feel one iota of remorse. So far I have been telling myself that this will change as soon as he begins to get past his own betrayal, but what if I'm wrong? What if it takes him so long to process that I get too hurt to heal? What if he never feels any remorse at all, but keeps blaming me for everything?


    I think of suicide nearly every day, but I don't even have that option. I couldn't do that to my children.

    All I can do is wait, and hope, and try to not rock the boat too much when I am triggered, which is often, since my husband keeps talking about OW like she was our mutual friend. In just two weeks he will go to her country on an 18-day trip, and he has made perfectly clear that he is going to meet up with her for coffee or dinner a couple of times while he is away.

    I just don't know how to live like this.

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    1. Dear Anna,

      Your story resonated with me. My husband ... 4 months out was still grieving his OW. It was pure torture. I have two children (very young ages 19 months and 5 months). He was a shell of himself and I needed the space of a separation to get me through it. I had to move home with my parents in order to create emotional distance between us. Do you have that option? Can you ask him to separate, for your own sanity? It helped me ... and it helped my husband realize what he would be missing without us.

      My heart breaks for you - really and truly. I know that feeling and I have almost the exact same conversation with him wanting to "remain friends." However, you HAVE to put your foot down. It's painful and horrible, but you have to - you owe that to yourself.

      Best of luck ... please keep us updated. I will be praying for your strength.

      -Abi

      Delete
    2. dear Anna
      I am crying for you. This is all so horrible. You are so like me that i want to hug you. We know our men are not good men yet we love them anyway. Sometimes when i have held onto my husband as he has broken his heart over OW i was in my own personal Hell.
      He just could not stop contacting her and weeping for her and trust me she was one hard piece of work.Really a serial man hunter having had dozens of lovers yuk !!!
      I knew if i waited lovingly and patiently that she would fight him because he is a massive control freak.As obviously she was too.She messed up a few times with him leaving her in cities and fleeing from her leaving her in hotel rooms. still he went back. Yet honestly kept telling me "Its YOU i love ,i am just besotted with her she is not a nice person,nothing like my loving gentle Polly"
      COME ON !! really i thought,well she must be good in bed then and after all she is 20 years younger than me or him.
      In the end i saw them fighting more than loving each other.He cried asking me to let her stand by his grave side when he died. COME ON i would push the bitch in the hole lol
      It is all so sad in the end. We are just too loving to men who frankly do not deserve us
      Yet we carry on loving and forgiving them only hurting ourselves. Trouble is we cannot help who we love. Neither could they the rats.
      But why torture us why not be sorry and try to make amends for their lies and deceit.Why not be honorable
      Chin up love one day we will walk out into the sunshine. i keep getting a glimpse now of sunshine ahead but first we have to ride this horrid roller coaster with each others help
      Polly

      Delete
    3. Anna,
      Of course you don't know how to live like this. This is hell. You are married to a narcissist. He seems utterly incapable of empathy -- of actually recognizing your feelings and acknowledging them as valid. While some men do go through a grieving phase coming out of an affair, what your husband is doing is so far beyond that. He's rubbing your nose in it. He thinks that HIS pain -- the result of a relationship that he hid from you, lied to you about, took time away from his family for -- is something that is more important than your pain. This isn't your garden-variety head-up-his-ass cheater, this is someone who is performing a total (forgive the expression) mind-fuck.
      All I can say is that you have to figure a way out of this. A quick Google search re. divorce in Sweden reveals that he's required to pay child support and that there is the possibility that you could request support for a transitional period until you're able to find gainful employment. At the very least, I would consult a good lawyer and figure out your options. You need to find a way to not feel so trapped. Furthermore, I would make it very clear to him that you do no want to hear a single word about his affair partner. As far as you're concerned, she doesn't exist. You are not his therapist and, frankly, he needs one. If you aren't already seeing someone, I think it's crucial that you, too, find a counsellor who can support you through this.
      Anna, I am so sorry for what you're going through. Please know you can continue to share here and gain strength as you work through this pain.

      Delete
    4. Polly,
      As you noted, what your husband is doing to you is as cruel and dysfunctional as Anna's. But as you also noted, you're giving him permission to continue to do it. Only when you draw very clear boundaries around what you refuse to tolerate is there even the chance that he will stop. Until then, you can expect more of the same.
      I think that , like Anna, you would help yourself a lot by getting a therapist and learning how to create healthy boundaries for yourself and begin to treat yourself with a measure of respect.
      You both deserve so much more than this. You are worth so much more than this. But you have to believe this. And then you have to make it a condition of being in your life. If people can't respect you, they aren't welcome.
      In the meantime, please know that you've got support here as you cope with just how deep the wounds of betrayal go...and how you can begin to heal them.

      Delete
  28. Polly- Get out. Run. Leave as fast as you can. No one deserves the abuse you've been subjected to. Please recognize what is happening. He is controlling and abusive. Some men are worth the pain because they truly are sorry and do whatever they can to repair the rift in the marriage...he will not do this, he will never do this. You have to look out for yourself now and take care of yourself, and be safe. Help yourself, he cannot be helped. Please do what is best for you now.
    C.

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  29. Anna I wish I had words. This is unbelievable. I understand that some men DO miss and grieve their OW. ANd I coldly say to myself " too bad" i Have not had to face that. Try the reading list here (above) as I know "after the affair" addresses this, but not to a large extent. I hope others have help for you because I can't imagine what you are going through, especially knowing that you don't want to divorce. I am so sorry. What nerve. He blames you for her moving in? When we think we Have heard everything, it becomes clear that we haven't.

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    Replies
    1. I am so grateful for your reply. The fact that other people think his behaviour is outrageous makes me doubt myself much less.

      Reading on this site about D-day and PTSD has helped me understand a little better why he is acting this way. He too was in shock from being deceived and betrayed by someone he trusted and felt deeply connected to.

      The way he is treating me right now is still unacceptable, but understanding that he is reeling just like me gives me hope that he will snap out of it eventually. If it happens soon enough then maybe we can even save the marriage!

      I looked again at all the options, and there is a way that we can separate. Ideally, I would have wanted to have a fresh start in an apartment in town, and have the children live half the time with each of us, but the money just isn't there to set up two proper homes within a reasonable timeframe. If I stay in our house and have the kids full time, and just get something tiny for my husband, then it would work. It would be difficult for me to manage alone with the kids in a house in the countryside, but it would work.

      After building my confidence on this site I confronted my husband and gave him a deadline. He has until May 31 to either cut contact and commit to me, or find a new home. To my surprise he agreed to this, and also to keep supporting me until the divorce was final in case that was the way we go.

      When I wrote my first post I felt completely powerless, but now I feel like I'm in charge of my own future again.

      /Anna

      Delete
    2. Oh Anna,
      I just read this after writing my reply above. I'm so glad you're taking a stand on this. You are not powerless. Regardless of how he responds, you can nonetheless treat yourself with respect.

      Delete
  30. Anna- the lst part of your post really struck me ("All I can do is wait, and hope, and try to not rock the boat too much when I am triggered, which is often, since my husband keeps talking about OW like she was our mutual friend. In just two weeks he will go to her country on an 18-day trip, and he has made perfectly clear that he is going to meet up with her for coffee or dinner a couple of times while he is away.

    I just don't know how to live like this.")
    I am so sorry your h is acting like this. That he talks about her in front of you, that he hasn't recognized the hurt he has caused. My h was in his affair fog for at least three months, but he cut off all contact with her (at my insistence) and never talked about her in front of me unless I asked the questions I needed answered. To tell you he IS going to meet up with her...how heartless. How do you live like this? You don't. There are many kinds of abuse when affairs happen and are uncovered. Trust is abused, love is abused, the marriage is abused, the spouse is abused...but this! You, Polly and our gentleman above....these are abusive after affairs. I'm especially worried about your suicidal thoughts. You are in so much pain. I hope you are able to get individual therapy so you can help yourself in this terrible situation. I wish I knew what else to say to you. Please get some individual help- you need someone who will listen to you, who will help you process this disgusting situation, who will help you sort things out.
    C.

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    1. Thank you for replying. I want to reassure you, I'm not going to do anything to hurt myself. I do have a very good doctor, and I have antidepressants that really work for me. I have some incredibly wise and supportive friends. The thoughts come, but I will never act on them.

      I also feel so much better after spending a few days reading this site. What he did is his shame, not mine! The affair was not about me, and not about OW - it was only about him.

      I don't even feel the need for revenge on OW anymore, partly because she really is her own worst enemy, messing up her own life better than anything I could arrange, and partly because I now understand that he lied to her too. She knew he was married, because he once brought her into our home as a house guest for a whole week, but he managed to convince her that it was completely over between us and he only stayed out of guilt for our kids.

      Thank you again for replying. It makes a difference that you confirm what I was seeing but not accepting: that the way he is acting is unacceptable.

      Yesterday I stood up to my husband and told him that as far as I was concerned, this woman doesn't exist anymore, and the next time he mentions her it better be to tell me she is no longer a part of his life either. I also figured out an ultimatum that I can actually keep: he has until May 31 to do this, and if he chooses not to, I expect him to move out June 1. I figured that way we have both had 6 months to process our respective betrayals. If it is he, not I, who has to find somewhere to live, pack all his stuff, etc, then I have much more time arrange a viable solution for my future. He agreed to all of this, so now I feel a tiny sliver of hope that we will be able to cooperate, either about the marriage or the divorce.

      /Anna

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    2. I'm so glad to hear that today you are doing better and that you are taking some control of the situation. Keep reading this posts on this site- you'll see that there are many wise women here who manage to say the right things at the right time. I can't tell you how often I've found some support and comfort in these pages. It is so helpful to know that you are not alone. Please continue to keep us up to date. Hang in there- this is a long road with lots of ups and downs. I'm just so glad that you're finding your voice- good for you!
      C.

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  31. Anna I feel so bad. I am in tears reading your story. Don't stay with him for the kids. If u are thinking of suicide then this is not a good situation. he needs to get over himself & u need to get out. I don't know anything about Sweden but I still think u should see a lawyer. There may be no alimony there but there might be exceptions given ur child. Please don't do anything to hurt urself. Ur children deserve at least one parent who has their interests at heart. Ur husband seems totally out of the loop. For a second imagine their lives if u were gone.

    Sam

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    1. Thank you for your concern, it really helps me that I'm not alone in finding all this unacceptable.

      Like I wrote to C above, I want to reassure you, I will never act on my suicidal thoughts. I'm sorry if I alarmed anyone by voicing them.

      I suffered severe depressions when I was a teen, and the thoughts were actually kind of a safety valve for me: I felt that no matter how bad it got there was always a way out, and since the option was always there, there was no rush. I could always go on one more day (or hour). After I had the children, that way out was closed forever. I am extremely aware of what the loss would mean to my children, both right now and long term.

      As I remind myself, since he took up with OW, my husband has actually done his best to erase himself from our children's lives. Our son even commented on this to his teacher. He said that he thought it was a bit strange that even though he technically has two parents, he feels that I'm the only parent he can count on when it matters.

      How could I betray that kind of trust? I have to take care of myself, and when I can't do it for myself, I do it for my son and my daughter.

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  32. Anna good for you! Standing up for yourself is ALWAYS a good step! Your husband can wallow in his own self pity with NO one as long as he likes. OR he can face his shortcomings as a father and husband and earn his way back to you. But it will take a lot of time. And your time is too precious to be his shrink You already have two children to take care of. He can't be your third. He has got to man up no matter the outcome. I am glad that Abi can share some experience with you. I am still floored. I cannot imagine how you feel :(

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  33. I need an opinion please or some experience from someone who has been there. The OW has been separated from her husband for years. It has been 15 month since D day. There is an STD involved the kind that is dormant but contagious if active. The nurse in me wants to write an anonymous letter to the OW husband. But no contact with her. They have grandchildren. This has been on my mind for several months.

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    1. Hi Lynn
      I know the circumstances are not the same and it may depend where we live but In my case about 4 years after my wife and I separated our family doctor contacted me and asked me to visit him , during the consultation he said I needed to get blood tests for STI's because my wife had contacted Gonorrhea . I assured him that we had not slept together for 4 years but I had to get tested because it is a re portable disease and what ever STI you are talking about it may be similarly re portable , possibly talk to your Doctor , they should be able to advise you
      I have no idea who her partner was and when I told her how angry I was that I had got caught up in her relationships she blamed me because our marriage was over
      I have to say about a week after D day when she said " You have destroyed the only real love I've ever had and I will never forgive you for it " I said the same thing to her " you have destroyed the only real love I've ever had and I no longer love you and I will never believe you or trust you again " so I guess in some way I did end it

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    2. Lynn Pain,

      If you've read my posts, you know that I got HPV and about twenty years later a Head & Neck cancer that may have come from that. At the time, there wasn't as much information about HPV and that it can remain dormant in the body for a long time. As you probably know, most people who do get it simply flush it out but I didn't . If you're talking about genital warts, certainly the other people should know in my opinion. So what if they're grandparents? My husband wouldn't tell me the last name of the first flight attendant until a yr ago, so I had no way to contact her husband. Health risks are nothing to ignore especially if there is a chance of Cancer.

      Delete
  34. Anna again...

    I should have known the rollercoaster wasn't over.

    My snake of a husband has been acting so sweet since I put my foot down. He hasn't said that it is over with her, and I can see he is still texting a lot with *someone*, but he was attentive, holding my hand, hugging me when we watched TV. I allowed myself to hope. How naive of me.

    I'm still reading on this site for hours every day. Trust but verify... my husband is always very careful to lock his phone and his computer, but this morning I noticed that his computer was unlocked while he was in the shower. I looked. I don't know if this was good or bad.

    He has told me over and over again after D-day that they are only friends, but her contact is listed under "Family". Last night she wrote how much she missed him, and he wrote how much he missed her and that she could always count on him for anything she needed. He called her dear.

    The chatlog only showed conversations they had had via this computer, and he mainly uses his phone, so the next conversation was from 13 days ago. He was begging her to dump her fiancé and marry him instead. She said that she will, in case it didn't work out with the wedding. She asked him to wait for her, because she can get a divorce in a couple of years. (She doesn't love her fiancé, she met him through a dating agency and she hardly knows him. Her parents are making her go through with it.) My husband reminded her that if she married him she would move to Sweden and get much better maternity care when she has her babies, and there is no one child limit... Then I heard him coming out of the shower so I quickly restored everything like it was when I started looking.

    I'm trying to be fair and remember that this conversation was before I put my foot down, but my hands are shaking and I think I'm going to throw up. No wonder he was terrified that I ever see their conversations, or that I ever talk to her. He doesn't give even a hint about our talk of reconciliation. He doesn't mention me at all. To her, it must look like I am already out of the picture. It's like I don't even exist.

    I do know that I have to keep calm and not start a fight until I am ready. I also know that I can't tell him that I snooped. The taboo against snooping is so great that any shame he might feel about his actions would drown in righteous indignation.

    (here I got interrupted, so the next part is written a few hours later)

    OK, I'm calmer now. I have decided to keep acting like nothing has changed, because nothing HAS changed.

    I didn't tell him I had snooped. The few lines they exchanged last night could just as easily be interpreted as close friends talking, if you don't know that they were lovers just a few months ago. I really wish I could read their most recent conversations. What he says now is a lot more relevant than what he said two weeks ago.

    I did tell him that I feel humiliated by his inability to choose. As usual, he got angry and said that he was suffering too and he was sick of me guilting him and he was doing his best. I kept my calm. I told him that it doesn't really matter why he is doing all of this, the result of his actions are that I am hurt and humiliated. At that point we were interrupted, but he looked sad and said we should talk more later about this.

    When we could talk again I told him that I had realized that he had been betrayed just as he betrayed me. I told that I now understood that he is as hurt and confused as I am. He looked sad and said that he is sorry that he is hurting me. He is trying to talk to her as little as possible, but he feels like a junkie that can't resist his drug.

    So... I will wait some more. He promised me he will make his decision as soon as he comes back from China. 28 days. I can wait that long. There is still a chance to save this marriage, even though it seems more and more like a longshot.

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    1. Anna,
      Regardless of whether your husband ends the affair or not (and I'm guessing "not"), his actions are those of a very sick person. Please get yourself a counsellor to help you with this. I suspect that because you've been in an unhealthy relationship with him for so long, you're losing sight of what "normal" looks like. He (and his OW) frankly sounds crazy. Do what you can to keep yourself sane.

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    2. "I suspect that because you've been in an unhealthy relationship with him for so long, you're losing sight of what "normal" looks like. He (and his OW) frankly sounds crazy. Do what you can to keep yourself sane."

      Oh, Elle...
      I read these words this morning and they have been echoing in my head. Looking back I realize that our relationship hasn't been healthy for many, many years. If I were to try to pinpoint where it went wrong I would guess around the time our daughter was born, 10 years ago. We had a new baby, both our jobs were much too demanding, and at the same time it was becoming more and more obvious that our son was not like other little boys. My husband started working even longer hours and weekends, leaving me with the whole responsibility. I got depressed again and had to quit my job so I could cope with the children. I couldn't meet my husband's emotional needs, and he stopped trying to meet mine. Instead he started what I now understand was an emotional affair with another woman (not OW, she came later).

      From that point it has gotten worse and worse. Somewhere in the shock of finding out about his 5 year affair I was actually happy. Sure, he was crying about another woman, but he was actually talking to me again, sharing his thoughts and feelings. I felt like I was a real person to him again, not just an unusually versatile piece of household equipment.
      I sometimes joke that our son didn't get his autism by mail order. Both my husband and I have some autistic traits, and unfortunately they combined in our son. I love my children, and I love my husband, but I am not sure if I would have started a family if I had known the risks. Children are a challenge to every marriage, but an autistic child to two semi-autistic parents is a recipe for disaster.

      As for OW, my husband once told me that she is so fragile that he couldn't possibly abandon her. She has some kind of psychiatric disorder, and he told me that even minor disappointments can trigger her to self-harm or lash out with violence. (What a treasure! No wonder he can't face a life without her! /sarcasm)

      I sometimes wish he could just move in with her for a while. Due to the distance their relationship is made up entirely of constant, deeply personal texting, and some holiday style time in hotels and restaurants. I'm competing with a fantasy, and there is no way to expose this until our family is destroyed and they are already married.

      "Do what you can to keep yourself sane." Right now I don't know how. We have started marriage counseling, but my husband is not particularly invested. He has started looking for an apartment, which is good, but he is looking in another town. He will live too far away to take any meaningful part in caring for the children. They will hardly even be able to visit for more than a couple of hours.

      Everything looks very bleak. I want my husband back the way he was before he turned his back on me, 10 years ago, but this scenario is impossible as long as he stands with one foot out the door. Plan B would be to divorce and make a fresh start with the children living with us every other week. It is incredibly exhausting to care for our son alone, full time, and I would need the time apart to rest. Now it looks like for me, there will be no fresh start and no time for rest. I will have all the responsibility and a lot less money to ease the difficulties, while my husband will be free pursue his happiness at my expense. This last scenario terrifies me, and at the moment it looks almost inevitable.

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    3. Oh Anna, I'm so so sorry for what you're going through. Do your best to focus on today. It's incredibly hard, I know. And it doesn't mean you don't make plans. It simply means that, as much as you can, you try and find some peace in the moment.
      Is your son in school? Is there any kind of support you can tap into (groups for autistic kids, camps, etc.)? You're probably so exhausted from carrying this load on your own for so long. Are there any stones left unturned? Now's the time to ask for help from anyone who can provide it. Even with your husband there, you've got too much on your plate.
      And I really would talk with a lawyer so that you're absolutely clear on what you are/aren't entitled to in the way of support. Find out what your husband's responsibilities might be should you go back to work (at least part-time). Talk over all the options.
      As for marriage counselling, keep going. But also find yourself an individual therapist who can support you and you alone. Practice radical kindness to yourself. Be gentle. You're clearly a strong smart woman. You're also wounded and exhausted. You need support and help and compassion.

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    4. And by the way Anna, I know it's not funny but I did giggle at your reference to being an "unusually versatile piece of household equipment". I think we all know that feeling...

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    5. Anna here

      My husband came home last night, enthusiastic about the one room apartment he had found. So spacious! A proper kitchen! Lots of parking! So cheap! And so close to his job! He should place a bid for it as soon as possible!
      When he stopped gushing I calmly asked him what he imagined my life would look like if he moved to this apartment. He got really angry, as usual. Why did I always have to be so negative? Of course this would mean that I would have to take care of the children more or less full time, and drive our son to and from school (84 km/day total), and keep living far away from everything , but didn't I know that there was no other solution? Didn't I understand that he was doing his best? The rest of the evening he hardly spoke to me, but whenever I was in the same room he glowered at me.

      That's when I realized that it is really over between us. I found John Gottman through this site, and he has said that in a good marriage both partners are loyal and trust each other to consider each other's needs and wants as well as their own. My husband has been putting his own needs and wants far, far above mine and the children's, and he has been doing it for years. His loyalty is to himself first, and then OW. This is true even now, when she is marrying someone else.

      Instead of going to sleep I spent two hours going over everything again. I found a website with legal advice, and I learned that the rules for child support were changed quite recently. We still don't have alimony in Sweden, but it's considered bad for the children to see one parent barely scraping by while the other is rolling in it. It is strongly recommended that the rich parent supplement the poor parent so that the standard of living is similar. The parents are free to ensure this any way they like, but a suggestion is to add both incomes, subtract reasonable expenses for the children and both parents, and then split what is left! Parents are supposed to come to an agreement, but if they can't a court will rule.

      This changes *everything*. Suddenly, I could afford a nice apartment, or even a small house if I am really careful. In town, I would have better access to support, so even if the children were to live more or less full time with me, the responsibility would not be as heavy. It may even be that my son could get to his school on his own! I would also be able to see family and friends more often. And I would get at least a few weeks a year all to myself, when the children visit their father!

      The difficult part is how and when to share all this with dear husband. In seven days we have an appointment with the counselor, and that would be perfect, but can I hide something like this for a whole week? Is it fair to the children? And, trying to be honorable, is it fair to my husband? He will leave for China and be gone nearly 3 weeks, so he won't have any time to react if I spring it on him the day before he leaves. I'm hoping he will agree to this enhanced child support without a fight, so I don't want him to feel like I am attacking him.

      I feel so light, like a millstone I didn't even realize I was carrying has been lifted from my shoulders. I'm no longer waiting for my husband to decide whether he can be bothered to treat me like a cherished wife again. I will no longer make myself miserable trying to reach a man who doesn't want to be reached. This isn't a trial separation, this is divorce.
      Thank you so much for your help, both with helping me see that my marriage was unhealthy and that I have nothing to be ashamed about. This site is incredible, and I wish women wouldn't wait until after D-day to read it!

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  35. Also Anna, sometimes spouses like children need a slap in the face for them to snap out of whatever funk they r to get them moving forward. Maybe ur ultimatum is what he needs for him to get over himself. As long as u baby him he will act like a baby. Give him a challenge, either he will rise to the occasion & take some responsibility or he will continue to wallow in self pity but then at least he has proven his true character & u can get on w ur life. Never feel trapped. There are always options.

    Sam

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  36. Anna I went thru my husbands phone and computer and records until I was sick of it all (and myself) because I had seen his m.o. As he slipped deeper into alcoholism. He would deny deny deny until I had physical proof of bottles. So I took pictures of them in his hiding places. The same happened when I found the evidence of his affair. He told me there were two
    incidents of cheating which was true but would admit to nothing else except "flirting" on line. Whoa. When I found THOSE transcripts I could not believe what his "flirting" consisted of. Everything was downplayed until I showed him. Years ago when I found something quite by accident on an old BFs computer my shrink asked me if I felt better knowing what I knew. I did not and never snooped anyone , Not even my husband until d day 20 years later. I was using his computer and found out what was going on quite by accident but for the next two hours all rules were OFF This us your husband and you have a right to know WHAT he's saying and who he's saying it too Your therapist I am sure will tell you the same. You have nothing to be ashamed if. Do not let your husband turn this around in you. He is the one who cheated.

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  37. Hi everyone, Abi here with an update ...
    I apologize if this gets posted twice as I accidentally pressed preview and my script disappeared.
    My H and I have been separated for almost 5 weeks, now. It's been a roller coaster of emotions as I have been seeking my own clarity. I cannot place exactly when my H had his "come to Jesus" moments, but he has 100% committed to our marriage and has found this new confidence in us that was absolutely lacking before we left. We are thousands of miles apart so it would take A LOT to get us back together, physically. Think air travel with two small children .... UGH.

    I had a horrible day yesterday - really digging at my H. I remember reading about Elle's therapist saying "enough" when Elle had gone too far and I know I was right there - on the verge of verbally attacking my H. I was able to catch myself and STOP. It doesn't feel good to dig at him ... but sometimes I need to hear, over and over that he wants ME and chose ME and is willing to go that distance for ME.

    What I am struggling with now is all of the details my husband shared with me about his feelings for his affair partner. He had the text book "I've never felt anything like this" before and really thought, at the time, that he had discovered his soul mate. My H and I have a steady, good relationship, but that intense passion was not there. He is confident we can discover our own passion while rebuilding and was stead-fast in his answers yesterday, despite my pushing and digging.

    Just struggling ...he wants his family back. I am thankful he has "woken up" and realizes that family should always come first. . . I just don't know if I am ready to go back and surrender myself to this vulnerability ... the age old worry, I guess.

    I hope everyone is having a good day.

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    1. Hi Abi,

      I just posted this link on Twitter around the whole "I love you but I'm not IN love with you" crap. I think it suits your situation. The short of it is that love requires action. And love within a long-term marriage with children requires radical action. It's far easier to find "love" with someone when it's a fantasy world.
      In any case, here it is: http://www.beyondaffairs.com/uncategorized/emotional-affair/

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  38. Abi,

    It sounds like your Officer and Gentleman who went AWOL for awhile has indeed found Jesus. But can you trust it to last? Many of us here have had the same feelings. Wanting to lash out, keep the wayward spouse in the doghouse, and punish in so many ways. But of course that doesn't help but it sure feels good at the time. Unfortunately there aren't any guarantees either way you choose. When my husband was in the AF, he was a straight arrow but when he switched to the airlines just stroked his ego even more.
    There's a saying, " Environment breeds behavior". What you're dealing with at such a young age is that drinking carousing behavior, cockiness of a lot of young guys still acting like they're in high school in my opinion. But now you get to set the rules, maybe one is to not go out drinking with his buddies. Going on long deployments is going to be harder I would guess for you because you'll have doubts. It takes a long time to rebuild trust. Just does.
    And one thing that I can certainly relate to is the soulmate crap. That is just so Hollywood. When you're changing diapers and wiping runny noses, it's pretty hard to fall into passionate sex at the end of the day. OMG! Why would he even suggest that?! He needs more hands on parenting duty again my opinion. Little children are needy, they just are. This sounds still more about him, his needs. I hope things workout and I can certainly understand the hassle of flying little children by yourself to a place with a guy who once again may decide to cut and run. But life isn't without risks. If he's the one, please remember to keep your eyes wide open as you head back. Wishing you the best possible outcome either way you go.

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  39. Anna at the rate your husband has been *not* communicating with you 7 days seems like nothing. If you tell him now my thought is that he won't go to therapy. (Although he seems to be working out his issues there and not your together) he sound sooo unengaged. It's sad that sooo many men just don't 'get' it until it's too late. I am so glad you have found so much helpful info This is where we can find our strength and take back our lives

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  40. Abi. I wanted to hear the same thing endlessly and I *knew* I always got it when I had a meltdown ir attached him verbally. I could not stop doing it because I did not know how else to get it, that "I'm sorry" again and again. I asked him to write a letter. Not an email. Not a text. A real letter I could hold in my hands So I asked him for that letter that I could read when I needed a little something and could get it whenever I needed it.
    I found the letter again a month ago and It was music to my eyes. Even now that the worst is behind us, that letter means more to me now than it did then because he had been true to every word. Just a thought to ponder maybe. I remember the feelings. Awful. Godspeed Abi, thru this rough time. Hugs

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    1. Ditto here. Abi, it's so hard to hold our tongues sometimes! Our counselor is trying very hard to get me to see that my latent irritation/anger/frustration is not helping us move forward, but I'm still waiting for the list of "I'm sorry for...'s" It come out in little pieces. A letter sounds like a good idea. And I'm happy that your H seems to have gotten his head screwed on straight- I'm hoping good things for you. Is there anyone who could watch your children while you flew to meet him and talk about this? Hang in there.
      C.

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  41. Anna-
    I think you should wait to discuss this at counseling for a couple of reasons. First, I remember how volatile I was at those early stages (well, I still am at times) and second, spending time thinking about how you are going to bring it up, rehearsing the beginning of what you want to say- you need time and perspective and 7 days will give you some of that. the fact that he was so happy to have found himself a place and he didn't care about you- wow. Be strong, know that the roller coaster may just be beginning, and keep checking in with us. I'm almost one year out, we've restarted counseling and I feel like I'm back on the roller coaster again. My son went through a divorce that was as hurtful as yours sounds, and even though it's now been two years since then, I believe he's still struggling with it. My point is to be ready for the ride and strapped in the best you can be. It's not over 'til it's over but at least you sound like you have a good plan. Take it easy- one day at a time, prepare for counseling. Good luck- we're thinking about you.
    C.

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  42. Hello all. My name is Mary, and I am over 3 months from D-Day. For those of you that are still reeling from the betrayal, or you are with someone that is not willing to accept full responsibility for their actions, this post may not be for you….
    I have been stuck on 'trust' and how to allow it back into our marriage. Fortunately, my H's affair was short lived, and thus far it seems to be the only incidence of infidelity. After I found out (no, he didn't come clean on his own - ugh) he was incredibly remorseful and put his money where his mouth was by doing everything I asked. Marriage Counseling, taking full responsibility, apologizing, hugging me, acknowledging the pain and damage that he caused, being there for me when the triggers hit, etc. He has done some tremendous soul searching into his behavior and is finally looking at the childhood abuse that he experienced and its impact upon his adult life.
    So - back to trust. I have been looking hard at my old way of looking at trust, pre-affair. I realize that once I decided upon this man as my friend, lover, and husband, that I mentally checked a box - a 'trust box' in my mind and decided that we were all set in that department. I was safe with him, he loved me, and Tada - TRUST. I checked the box and put it away in my mind. The first few years of our marriage were great but things deteriorated once we had a son at year #5. H became very demanding and hard to please and put our son's needs far ahead of his own and mine. Despite the rift that was growing between us, and the fact that he was no longer treating me like an equal partner, I refused to pull out the 'trust box'. I kept it hidden away. Didn't even occur to me to revisit it - or to question that paradigm all together about what trust/love/safety really is. I have been stuck there, wanting to start trusting again, but knowing that I can never again check the ‘box’. It is far too absolute, & too scary to do that again.
    I have been digging into my understanding of trust. The inroads are being built, thanks to his hard work, and I too am ready to tentatively begin to trust again (which would be a bad idea if he weren’t playing by ‘my rules’). But, rather than pulling out the old ‘trust box’, I am envisioning trust in terms of levels, or steps on a mountain. We are slowly stepping up the slopes, sometimes zigzagging, but overall, inching our way up, through consistent actions. A marriage at its best encompasses respect, love, compassion, forgiveness, and hard work, shared/exhibited by both partners. The pinnacle, or optimal level that we all want to strive for requires the two of us (for the time being he needs to put in much more work to prove that he is remorseful and fully committed after bombing the ‘trust box’). But my part is to remain open and, in my personal circumstance, to admit that he seems to have learned greatly from the consequences of his selfish actions.
    I now know that if he isn’t willing or able to maintain the level of respect, love, compassion, etc. that I deserve, then I know that the trust has been compromised and I must protect myself accordingly. When/if that happens I need to be open and honest with him about my concerns, talk about it, and expect that he will do his part to get us back on track, back to where we are at our best. If he cannot meet me halfway then I need to reexamine the marriage, and whether or not I want to continue to be in it. Is it a mountain worth climbing? Will the view at the top be worth it? Truth be told there is no ‘top’ as it will be an ongoing process of effort – on both of our parts – to sustain a healthy marriage. No final destination, no ‘trust box’ waiting at the top. But I like to think we will be able to reap the rewards of a fabulous view and hard won accomplishment if we are able to persevere.

    Peace.

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    1. Mary,
      Wow. What a great post. A lot of really important insights. I agree that "trust" will never be quite the same again. And though I mourned that loss at first, I've come to see that it's part of simply growing up and facing that even people we love can hurt us.
      It sounds as if you've established really clear boundaries around what you need in a partner and that's important. It will help you rebuild trust without feeling as though you're compromising yourself. We could all learn from you.

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    2. [Insert twisted smile here] You should have seen me three months ago. It took every once of strength NOT to drag the Xmas tree into the front yard and torch it... Dday was December 22nd.
      -Mary

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    3. Strength that some of us didn't have. While I might not have torched the tree, I certainly, metaphorically at least, torched everything else. My D-Day was Dec. 11. ;)

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  43. D day December 30. You can imagine the "happy" new year. Ugh. Checking the box on trust. Perfect way to phrase it. Don't we all trust the people we are with? Human nature to trust the one who says "I do". Shattering to know we were wrong Great post Mary. Do get what you deserve. The best and nothing less.

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  44. Anna again.

    Everything has changed. I can't leave. I have to stay.

    In the evening after my last post my husband started talking again about buying the little apartment and having a trial separation, "to see if he would miss me". I thought this was a golden opportunity, so I told him about my calculations for splitting our incomes. He went insane. He threatened to stop supporting me right that very minute. He wanted to log on to our bank and block me from all our mutual accounts. He wanted to quit his job and "lounge at home all day like you do". It was my turn to be the breadwinner now, because he was sick of working hard all these long hours for someone who was so ungrateful. It was unbelievably selfish of me to expect him to give up such a big part of his paycheck without getting any value in return - why pay if he was going to have to do his own cooking and cleaning? He wanted to take full custody of the children, because then I would have to pay child support to him!

    He knew he was being unrealistic, because how could he keep traveling like he does if he didn't have on demand 24/7/365 child care? He was lashing out, deliberately trying to hurt me as much as possible. He was showing a side of himself that I had never seen before.

    The fight was the worst we have ever had. I could see genuine hatred in his eyes, and his muscles were clenched like he was physically restraining himself from doing violence. After delivering his venom he shut down and refused to acknowledge my presence.

    I went to bed, crying silently, when a friend texted me. She is a close friend of both me and my husband, and when she asked me how I was it all came tumbling out. She "listened" patiently, and then she asked me if I was going to get the divorce. I said yes. "No, really, is it really your final decision? Are you really, really going to divorce him this time?" I was exhausted, so I said yes, this time he had gone too far, this time he had burned all the bridges and there was only ashes left. "Oh, finally! It's been killing me to hide this from you. I could not tell you if there was even a tiny chance of saving your marriage, but now you need to know."
    And then she told me. He had confided in her about a month ago. Something huge. Something horrifying. Something that makes all his callousness, all his betrayals, feel like nothing. Something that truly turned my world upside down, in a way that even D-day did not.

    Something I can do absolutely nothing about.

    My husband never came to bed that night, and I texted with our friend until 3 in the morning. When I woke up I knew that it was over. All my hope for a new life was over. There will be no divorce, and there will be no mending our relationship unless he chooses. I will just have to live in this limbo, at least until our daughter moves out.

    And I can't even breath a word about it to anyone. The short term and the long term consequences for me and the children if this got out would be devastating.

    Since then I have given an Oscar performance of the patient , loving wife, and he has halfheartedly hugged me good bye in the mornings. We don't talk about our relationship at all, only pleasant chatting about everyday things. I have hardly been able to eat.

    He leaves for China in 5 days. I don't think about what it will be like when he gets back.

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    1. Oh Anna...I don't know what to say. What could your friend have said that, in her mind, would cement your decision to leave and, in your mind, prevent any possibility of you leaving? I still would urge you to speak with a lawyer, bound by confidentiality, about all this.
      In the meantime, please know you're always welcome here for whatever reason you need to be here. Support, compassion, just to check in. I wish there was some way we could help you more than we are.

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    2. Anna, I hate to ask this bu is there any chance that your friend may be manipulating you and helping him? it seems very strange to me that she should textl right at that moment with news that is changing the outcome of your decision. like I said, I'm sorry to ask, but at this point in my life I trust no one, & I question everything.

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    3. Anna- listen to Elle. Find a lawyer. He's gone on a trip in a few days- talk to a lawyer then. If you belong to a parish or synagogue, talk with your pastor or rabbi. You are in a terrible situation and you need professional advice. Are you in counseling yet? If not, find a counselor, too. His reaction (tight muscles, etc.) scares the hell out of me and I don't even know him! Please be sure you are protected! And please keep checking in with us so we know you are ok. I truly am afraid for you now.
      C.

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    4. Completely agree with Elle. See a lawyer while he is out of town. Knowledge is power and it's confidential! Don't make a decision on your future on speculation or assumed laws. I would hate to see you regret getting all the facts. You have a golden opportunity with him out of town.

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    5. Anna, don't you dare give up like that. If your husband has done something so morally corrupt above and beyond his betrayal which is bad enough-- who in the world--what court would decide your husband is someone that you are forced to stay with while he runs around the world flaunting that he is going to see his mistress etc etc. You cannot be stuck and you cannot LET yourself be stuck. Do take this separation as he travels to go see his girlfriend to DO something. I echo the sentiments--you must see a lawyer. You must. I don't know anything about Sweden but if you have no money there must be court appointed lawyers who can help or work on a contingency---there must be. You should not be stuck in this horrific world he has thrust upon you. What if he buys this apt? And you sell the house you are in now--are the marital assets divided equally? There +has+ to be something in it for you. You might just have too look harder.

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    6. Anna? Are you ok? Please check in with us.
      C.

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  45. Hi its been a while since I last posted, as things have been going well, I am 22 months on from Dday1 (~found out about sexting to several women) and I am 16 months out from Dday 4 ( finally found out he had an affair) my hubby has done all I have asked, he is transparent, all phones and PC are available to me etc, he is so attentive and caring towards me, he knows I have good and bad days, and when I have bad days I discuss them with him, this helps me although it may be just confirming details in my head or reassuring me that he was an idiot, I know how much this effects him too, it physically makes him ill, he says he hurt me, but he also hurt himself, as he put at risk that what was so important to him, he looks back and says he cannot even see himself now at what he was doing , that he was someone else and he will never allow that someone to ever come back, he suffers when I suffer, and he suffers trying to help me feel better and try to come to terms with his infidelity, he is patient and will wait as long as it takes, so why is it that recently on a daily basis I cant get movies out of my head ( I have been doing so well)~ this may be too much information, but I really do not know how I can put this without being blunt to see if this is normal, or do I have some underlying issues, so my apologies if my bluntness offends anyone but here goes.

    When I first found out about my husbands affair i really fulfilled the term ~"hysterical bonding~" since then things have evened themselves out, we are physical and there appears to be more intimacy again, more longing and desire, it reminds me of our early years of marriage, the love really shines between us, however although we have resumed all physical intimacies, i cannot perform oral sex on him, he is ok with this, he is happy to wait until i am comfortable to perform this act again, there is no pressure, he says if i never do it again it doesn't matter as long as we have each other, he is happy with our sex lives he is happy he still has me, so why when he is in mid act with me, do i have the movies scenes of him performing this act on the OW, why do i torture myself with did he enjoy this more with her than me, etc etc, i have managed to push these visions aside some times, other times i have not and i have had to stop and see the pain in his face that he has caused me this hurt, he has caused this issue in our marriage, i have these movies whilst driving along in my car all alone not just when i am intimate, why all of a sudden are these taking a priority in my marriage, i thought i had got passed the worst, i thought we were heading in the right direction, i know we still are as he is so understanding, it now seems that i am causing the problems i am making things an issue but why?

    I love him, i know he loves me, he doesn't stop telling me, i can see it in his eyes, i know we can work through this i want to sort this out, i will never get the marriage back i had before, i don't want it there was obviously something wrong that i was not aware of, but i do want to have my friend, my husband, my soulmate, and our love back to a place where we are both happy and fulfilled, so why do i keep taking several steps backwards.

    I will understand if this post is not included as i have not seen many posts brace the subject of oral sex, however i fell as if i am suddenly stuck and i don't know how to continue moving forward, and i so want too a things were going so well.

    Thanks for listening.

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    1. I am new on this site. Today to be exact but your post -with the exception of a couple of things- could be me writing it. I am unable to have sex with my husband without a movie playing in my head of my husband with the OW. Its heart wrenching thoughts and visions that I have not been able to get rid of. I am almost a year out from finding out about my husbands affair. Honestly, I think its normal for both of us. I too experienced hysterical bonding. So much so I wanted him everywhere, all the time, many times a day. That part is back to normal and our sex life is actually better than before finding out about his affair. We are more open with each other. While our relationship seems to be getting stronger everyday, my mind is not following. I still wake up everyday with thoughts and visions of his affair and it tears me up every day. I can't believe this is my life now and I am not sure I will ever stop thinking about it. I do believe we are both experiencing PTSD and unfortunately, I don't know myself how to help but wanted you to know that you are definitely not alone. Even when my body is aching for my husband, I can still get those images jumping into my head and it totally changes everything.....like going from a fire to a snow storm in a matter of seconds. I feel your pain and am living right along side of you. It literally feels like your moving forward and then get pushed right back to the beginning sometimes. It hurts more than anything I have ever experienced and told my husband I wish he had taken an actual knife and stabbed me 100 times in the heart as it would have hurt much less and it would have been over instantly. This is complete torture and having the visions all the time makes things much worse. My therapist says when you are a visual person as you sound like you are and I am, it apparently takes much longer to recover. I hope there is some way for us both to move forward and eliminate the torturous visions forever.

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    2. One of the unfortunate "souvenirs" of infidelity is that, just when you think you're past it, you get smacked in the head with some reminder. And our brains, designed as they are for survival, often react in ways that scream "danger" even when we, logically, know the danger has passed.
      It sounds as if each of you has alarms going off when you are put in a position where you're vulnerable (and we're pretty damn vulnerable when we're having sex). It's not regressing per se, but it is a clear signal that there's still pain and fear there...and you're feeling uncomfortable coming up against that.
      I do think the mind movies disappear. But they'll disappear faster if you can replace them with something. Can you imagine, temporarily, your husband as Brad Pitt (or whomever you fancy)? Can you imagine a movie scene or a book scene or some other way to get you out of THOSE thoughts?
      Not sure if you're in therapy but if you are, I think it's worth bringing this up. Intimacy isn't YOUR problem it's both of your problem. Rebuilding it after such a betrayal takes a long time. Be patient with yourself. Don't expect yourself to heal from something so quickly. Recognize that you'll wax and wane as you heal from this.

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    3. Anon--please. You obviously haven't seen the "F" word thrown around much--then you have missed many of my posts. I alone probably deflate the mostly classy nature of this place a few notches (especially in the months after D-day) . No need to apologize. I take it your husband understands the gravity what you are going through, and for that you can be grateful.

      For the most part we really are NOT in completion with the OW--it is our husbands who chose something and someone "different" not that there was EVER anything wrong with us, and that is the truth. This is not our fault at all...and we are working WITH our partners and not against someone else (except in the most extreme circumstances--some right on this thread). It sounds as if you and your husband really are working together, so bravo for that.

      I don't know if you would be comfortable with this, but in my worst days, my mind movies were unstoppable. My husband had an "affair" with PRO--a prostitute-- so of course I imagined the sex HAD to be amazing and something I could not compete with. I know I'm good and fun and adventurous but I could NEVER be that good right?

      So one day I said "tell me something awful about her" I didn't care what it was, it just had to be awful. Maybe she wore dirty underwear or had bad breath, body odor--something. I could really give a damn about so many things. my questions rarely had to do with HER to be honest.

      But this I wanted to know-I told him to tell me something bad. Well, much to my surprise despite her Pro status, she couldn't give a good blow job!!!

      Half my mind movies just disappeared or at least were replaced with a much funnier movie of my husbands frustration of finally getting "it" and it sucked--and not in a good way. I have held onto the memory probably tighter than any for that time in our lives. It might no be for everyone, but it helped me so much and I often had a secret smile on my face when he wasn't (or even was) around. The tragedy is that he almost threw everything away for a shitty blow job. and please excuse MY language!

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  46. If there is a place for TMI this site is it. You were tactful so don't apologize. My situation is very similar to yours as my DDay was 20 months ago and it was sexting with an old HS "friend". The mind movies can be torture. I still get them from time to time. I think I was using them to compete. I'm sure your mind movies (as mine) where probably way better than the real thing. Our imagination makes us believe that the only way he could have done this is if the OW must have been spectacular. I'm sure she wasn't. Our H's did this because of something inside of them. With mine, it was the fantasy of being wanted coupled with several marriage and family issues that was making him feel unwanted. Honestly I would have preferred he left me and then we worked it out instead of this, but this is what we got as our wake up call. My H and I are closer than ever and I know he truly loves me and is extremely remorseful for his behavior. As for the oral sex.. If it is something you enjoyed before, then try to figure out what "mind movies" are keeping you from doing it now. Is it that you don't think you will compare? Trust me, he isn't comparing. I think we create that competition in our own minds. Its natural. I know I did and still do from time to time. Try to relax and enjoy your reborn intimacy. Once you relax and it's just about the 2 of you and no "mind movies" I think nature will takes it course. Good for him for not pressuring you.

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    1. Thank you Anne, Elle and Julie, it really does help to realise I am not the only one who is replaying videos of my interpretation of my H affair.

      Julie you are spot on, my thoughts are like the movies, it is something spectacular between them, proper love story, I have spoken to my H and told him what I see, his response was that he did not wish to go into graphic detail as this would not help either of us, but he needed me to know that it was nothing special, it was over before it had begun, even when they had the opportunity to spend hours making out, after 10 mins it was all done and dusted and he was having his favourite cup of tea.

      You see I was my H only sexual partner, up until the OW, our first intimate liaison was over in seconds ( bless him, lol~) he referred me to how nervous and shy he was back then, and says this was exactly how he was with the OW.

      My hubby too also finds it hard to recount how he was feeling whilst seeing this OW and why he felt the need too, he feels it was at a time where I was too busy with our children and grandchildren ( this is true I will take responsibility for spending to much of my time on them rather than including my H also, he works shifts and I just allowed him to work and sleep) he reconnected with a girlfriend on FB who he had not seen for over 30 years, and although I say girlfriend they were only 12, so kissing was as far as they went, he said they met for coffee and then exchanged numbers so texted each other just generally, he said this escalated into sexting and then the affair, he says that after 4 intimate times together, he tried to cut ties, however when she called to meet up he felt trapped and had to meet to keep her quiet ( she could contact me at any point)~ although he says he met up he did make it impossible for anything sexual to happen, therefore he continued for over 12 months just texting and meeting for coffee, however he progressed then to sexting friends of mine and his on FB, and also entering craigslist and Ashley Madison, it is this I initially found out for Dday 1, he explains to me that the sexting was a buzz made him feel good,he enjoyed what they said to him etc, and that although he couldn't 100% guarantee it, he would never have met up with anyone for sex, it was purely the buzz he needed, however if I had not found out and this had continued he does admit it is possible it may have gone onto be more, he thinks it was a mid life crisis, and that he needed to see what it was like to sleep with someone else, ( which he says was nothing) however he had already found that out so why start with advertising on affair sites ( other than the buzz he cannot explain why he did that)

      I found out about his affair after the OW died of an illness, he decided then to tell me about it, which I found rather curious, surely after the threat of her telling me had gone he could have kept it hidden, hence everything was trickle truth and I actually had 4 ddays to finding out everything, this make it real hard for me to believe I have been told everything now, although he insists I know it all now. and he will discuss anything over and over with me again and again even though it hurts us both, but when I have bad days I tell him I feel he needs to know that I am still suffering and he is ok with this.

      cont in next post..

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    2. Cont post ...

      I also show him the posts I make sometimes and the response I get, I feel he needs to understand the intensity of the infidelity and the pain it has caused me, and even though he can see my pain I think in written form it may hit home that little bit more, and the whole fact that I still feel the need for answers or guidance from others that have suffered the same pain.

      im sorry I am rambling now, but thank you for your replies it really does help to see that I am not the only one who plays these videos, maybe I need to cartoon them in my head so next time I see a Tom and Jerry style movie and can smile and push it out of my thoughts, lol whichever way I do it, I know now that this is a norm, I am not trying to put barriers there for any reason, I love my husband always have, and would never have thought him capable of him hurting me in this way at all, finding out he is capable has rendered me so unsure that it will not happen again I think I am always on tender hooks and looking for the signs that I so obviously dismissed for so long, he promises me it will never happen again, I would so love to believe him but I cannot at this precise moment in time and that frightens me, although that fear will not allow me to give up on a marriage that has been so could for the most part, it will be 25 yrs this September and I always said I wanted to renew my vows on a Caribbean beach, we have booked mexico however no renewal of vows, I am not ready for that yet, maybe on our 30th, but you see as far as I see it, I am back to year 1, he ruined the first 24 years with his affair so he is starting from scratch, he has said he hope that this thought will change in time and i do too if i am honest but he broke his vows to me, so i am not about to renew that which he broke for what he says was a stupid mid life crisis which he so very much wished he had been able to see clearly and prevent by realising he had not missed out on anything only ruined the best thing he ever had.

      You see i do believe in my heart of hearts he means every word, but my head will not allow me to fully comprehend it, because as you say Elle, it makes me vulnerable, and it is then that i get hurt the most.

      Thank you for your responses, it really does help.

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    3. Everything you describe is "normal" under the circumstances -- the fear, the mind movies, the feeling that your past is "ruined". Time really can work its magic, as long as you keep doing the work of healing yourself. Taking time to nurture yourself, allowing yourself the chance to feel your feelings. And giving him the opportunity to bring a better self to your marriage.

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  47. Its ben 11 mos. In April 2014, I found some pictures of a woman with her pants pulled partially down and my husbands hand on her bare ass. I confronted him and he denied it. He said a colleague sent them to him saying "Look what I did". One night I took his phone in the middle of the night and checked it. I found a number under P. I found out who it was, a family friend. Years prior, after they had been talking way too much on the phone about her kids sport (that my husband coached), I asked him if something was going on with her and he said there wasn't and that me and our son meant everything to him. I confronted him, he finally broke down and told me that he had about a 2 month affair with her 9 years ago. They were meeting at a park on his way home from work. They would start fooling around in OUR car and it escalated to sex. He said he felt sick after they had sex and told her never again. He said it made him feel like he was in high school again. He said he has been talking with her on the phone only for the past 9 years and met periodically for coffee only. There were a lot of calls. He was told he had depression but was reassessed now with General Anxiety and the meds he was taking made the anxiety worse. He told me that he only continued to talk to her on the phone as she is a talkaholic and her constant chatter was a distraction and that he didn't have to talk. After Nov 2013, he had every Friday off. He would go out every Friday on his own to "his thing" (shop).He says he met her a couple of times for coffe, except for Mar 7 when the pictures were taken. He met her again at a park where they began to make out (kissing,fondling). While there, he her heard a noise that brought him back to reality and took off out of her car. He said had to stop to vomit from the guilt. He has been very sorry and immediately apologized. When I ask questions he can't remember, especially the why it happened. He believes the Anxiety is to blame and says he doesn't know what he was thinking. He says he has never felt anything for her including attraction. He is adamant that nothing physical happened during the 9 years between and that they were just friends. I found a poem on his phone that I assumed was for her that made it sound like he was in love with her but he says he wrote it one night when he couldn't sleep about a movie, but still is unable to locate the movie for me. From what I can tell all communication has stopped. The problem I am having is that I don't know what caused it-if I don't know that how will I ever know that he won't do it again. He swears after seeing the pain he caused that he would never do anything to ever hurt me again. I am told that his lack of memory can be due to his anxiety and he may never remember everything. I don't know if what he tells me about the 9 years between is truthful-if he was having sex with her the whole time, I can't forgive that. Its been almost a year and I still feel extreme rage and hurt. I still have the images and movie going over and over in my mind of them having sex. It still makes me sick and I don't know how I will ever stop the cycle of pain.

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    1. I'm so sorry for all that you're going through. So many of us will never really understand the motivation for the affair. I'm had to content myself with the knowledge that my husband was, simply, broken. And hurt people hurt people.
      I think you'd likely feel better about your willingness to give him a second chance if you were seeing more from him in the way of trying to sort it out himself. He doesn't seem any clearer about what was going on with him now than he did then. What is he doing to ensure he doesn't go down that path again. Is he managing his anxiety? Is he giving you total access to any and all forms of communication? Has he sent her a "no contact" letter and let her know that YOU know about everything? Does her spouse (if she has one) know what happened? It seems as if you've just drifted along without any real resolution around what happened. I wonder if that might change at least a bit how you feel.
      I also would urge you to get counselling to help yourself heal through this. Betrayal is excruciating. You need help processing your feelings. Your pain is valid.

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    2. Thank you for the reply. I sent a reply again yesterday but it looks like it didn't save. We both saw our own therapists first now we are seeing one together and she is a big help in a lot of ways. Unfortunately, his lack of memory or convenient lack of memory(not sure which it is or maybe both) is keeping me stuck. He has been supportive and very guilt ridden but I still feel like there is another shoe about to drop and I think its due to not feeling comfortable that there was nothing but a non physical friendship during the 9 nine years when they had the affair 9 years ago and then started up again in mar 2014. Who does that, who has an affair and then decides they can be good friends after and call almost daily and meet every few weeks for coffee and nothing happens? Or maybe I am being a fool....probably why I think theres more. What do you guys think? Am I still being naive by entertaining the idea that he may be telling the truth about those 9 years. I know he has not met with her again...I can track his phone so unless he leaves his phone behind somewhere and meets with her (taking the chance that I don't call) then thats true. I have his passwords for all his email accounts that I am aware of anyway. I have his Facebook password and he shows me all his incoming and outgoing calls and I compare them to his phone records. So far, so good. He understands why I need to do it and doesn't complain but I can tell it bothers him that I have to do it. He has never sent her a no contact letter, email or text that I am aware of....I issued the ultimatum to both of them and they seem to be sticking to it. Another thing that bothers me about that is that he probably wouldn't have stopped if I hadn't stopped it. He says he never wants to see her again and can't stand to hear her name mentioned. I didn't tell you before that a couple of days after DDay, he tried to commit suicide-he says because he can't live without me and was sure I would never forgive him. I got him to the hospital and got him help which is when they diagnosed him properly with General Anxiety Disorder and gave him the appropriate medicine. He went to counselling about his anxiety and he does try to keep up with remembering to do what they told him to when he is feeling anxious. He was told by the therapist what to do to avoid becoming vulnerable to it happening again and he says he will make sure he is never in a position where he is vulnerable to another woman. I just can't stop thinking that if he truly loved me, he wouldn't have become vulnerable and at least would have been able to say no to her. he says she was the initiator. To me it feels like he was incapable of saying no and that doesn't give me any comfort for the future. She is married and her spouse is not aware. I really want to tell him though. My husband said if I told him he would take his lumps as he deserves it and I know her husband well enough to believe he would become violent and my husband wouldn't defend himself. Since so much time has gone by, he now doesn't want him to know as he doesn't want to start from day 1 again and thats probably where we would end up. I dislike her husband but doesn't he deserve to know she is a cheater. I doubt my husband was the first one..although I don't know for sure. Our therapist is trying to help me be able to get through this with the knowledge that I may not ever have the answers I need but I feel I need to at least have the how and why it happened. What was going on in his mind.

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    3. He believes his anxiety was the cause of all of it for the whole 9 years but I find it difficult to believe that he didn't have any clarity during the 9 years that told him it was wrong and to stop..even when they were just talking. Its obvious that he knew it was wrong as he changed her name in his phone to just P so I wouldn't know (her name doesn't start with that letter). I am also sure that I probably asked him over the years why so many calls to the same number and he would have told me it had to do with the sport he was coaching.,which would have been partly right. She changed her number twice so I would have thought it was someone else each time probably..I don't know, I trusted him so I wasn't keeping a close eye on his phone records. I am now though. I honestly don't know if its possible for me to get past what he did without feeling comfortable that I have been told the absolute truth and I don't know how to find that out. I also don't know how to get past what he did without knowing how he got to that point in the first place. We have been together for over 30 years and married for 27, he is the love of my life...the only one I have ever had any form of sexual relations with but obviously I am not his only. He was with a few other women before me also. I would love to be him where I don't have to ever think of him ever being with another woman. Now since he cheated on me, I wonder how many others there may have been although he says none and I have been having visions of him with women he was with before even meeting me. The therapist says its normal and it will pass but I don't know. I need some serious help I think.

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  48. Dear Anonymous,

    I don't think what you're feeling is uncommon. Affairs are both physical and emotional trauma and let's face it each of us has our own taboos about sex learned in our families of origin. When my husband admitted having oral sex with the second attendant, I wanted to throw up. Yet he said he did not have oral sex with the first because get this, it was too intimate. I don't really believe that, I just think he was avoiding me going ballistic. If you are in therapy, I would think your counselor would tell you not to do anything sexually that you aren't comfortable with. If it is never, so be it. As you wisely stated, you have your husband back but it's not the same marriage. And maybe that's a good thing in the end as you solve the puzzle of why it happened.

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  49. My husband and I met at university 30 years ago. He was 'the only one for me'. We have four fabulous children, now teenagers. He works in his family business and I am an at-home mum. We have always said 'I love you' and have always had a very active and fulfilling (in my opinion) sex life. As his business and our children grew, our lives did take us away from time to time but we were based at home. I suppose we weren't communicating our needs to one another. Maybe I didn't give him the attention he needed, he didn't me either, but I thought that this was usual in a long, happy marriage. D day was in Dec 2012 when he told me that he had succumbed to the approaches of a work colleague and had been sending and receiving sexual photos since spring 2012. He had to tell me because her husband had found his texts and threatened to tell me. Betrayal, incomprehension and pain on unimaginable scale. He remained at home and we talked and cried endlessly, trying to hide it from our children. Very very difficult. He answered all my questions (again and again) he swore that this version of events was the truth, whilst looking me straight in the eye. They had only sexted, never phone chat, never met up (except for work), never had sex. Just before Christmas 2012 I received a phone call from a woman, wouldn't give her name, who said that she had seen my husband and OW coming out of a hotel together. My husband denied this. I found condoms in his bedside table, again this was explained away. My nativity was incredible. We saw a councillor, with he recounted his story again. During this time, I was amazed to find that it was him I clung to. He was my comfort. He was incredibly kind and attentive in every way. I took it very very hard. I told only one friend and his mother. I have been on a huge journey over the last 2 1/2 years and although I would think about what he had done every day, we had rebuilt a happy relationship. Much better, and closer, than before. I travel extensively with him now which is wonderful. All going great, that is until 3 days ago.... I received a phone call from OW's (now ex) husband to say that he had named my husband in his divorce. He told me that his daughters (niw 24) had overheard their mother having sexual phone calls when they were young teenagers. When they redialled, they had reached my husband. They had also seen explicit and upsetting texts. OW confessed that she and my husband had been having an affair, meeting up in hotels, at her house and in his office, for sex, eight years! He told me that sex toys were found too. When my husband arrived home from work I confronted him with this, expecting him to deny it. He didn't, he just looked panicky and said that he had not been in contact with OW since he told me of the affair. He left. All four children have for big life-changing exams this year. I don't want to upset them and jeapodise their chances of success. But I can't have him here. I'm frightened that I will fall into his arms again. I don't feel I can ask him the truth about the affair because after lying breathtakingly for so long I don't think I should believe anything he says. I want my life back so badly, I want my children to be happy and secure with a good business to go into. On the other I cannot live a lie. Eight years is a staggeringly long time! It was hard enough getting over their sexting, the thought of trying to come to terms with them wrapped in one another's arms in bed, is almost impossible. I want to tell all his best friends what a monster he is one minute, and I want to keep the (appearance) of our marriage perfect the next. What do I say to the children? Could everyone know about the affair and us still be together? If I keep this huge secret and carry on as if nothing has happened, will it eat me up inside until I am just a shell and I hate him? Should I finish, what I thought was the marriage of a lifetime? Please help. Thanks

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    1. Sweetheart, you have been going through hell. I am so sorry.
      All your questions are normal...but they're also overwhelming. I think so many of us feel as though we have to DO something. But I think, sometimes, the best thing we can DO is to just give ourselves time to figure out what our next right step in. You don't need to make any big huge declarations to the world about what a cad your husband is. You can (and I think should) make it clear to him that he is no longer welcome in your bed. You can make it clear to him that you are giving yourself time to determine your next step. And then you can respond instead of react. You can make a decision that honors yourself...and doesn't create unnecessary drama for your kids. You can even take the time to talk to a lawyer about the whole thing -- support, the business, etc.
      Time and space. Give those to yourself. As well as a good therapist. That'll help too.
      And hang in there. Whatever path you choose, you'll get through this.

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    2. Hi Anon

      Elle is right, you need to give yourself time to decide how you want to react, try not react on instinct.

      I always told my H if he ever cheated that would be the end of us, however when i found out that he had been unfaithful, i kicked him out for 1 night, i took him back but we did not sleep together i decided i wanted time to reflect on what he had done, my love for him did not just disappear overnight so i wanted to think it through, however i did not want everyone else to know what had happened that was private it was my marriage, even now only my youngest daughter actually knows what happened and that was purely down to the fact that she walked in on us having a major row ( or rather me going ballistic at the very time he admitted to his affair) i have 2 close friends that new i was having issues in my marriage with him sexting but i never confided to the affair to them, i didn't want their judgment to cloud mine.

      Whatever you decide, it is your decision to make, and however that decision is derived is also yours to make, but go slowly and think things through, you can ask for as much time as you want, you deserve this time and if he is not prepared to give you this time, then maybe things will speed along more, however if he is, then you can take things slowly at your pace and you can decide whether it is something you can build upon and work through.

      It is hard i have been working through my H infidelity for nearly 2 years now, and i wont lie, i still have times where by i question myself, i relive the DDays all over again, but i can also see that my Husband is truly remorseful and loves me and i love him, so i do believe i have made the right decision, the question i asked myself after taking time out was " would i be happy to end my marriage and live without him in my life, or would i be able to try and work through his infidelity and hopefully start afresh and still have the man i love and the man that does love me in my life" my answer was easy to find and i am working through it with the help and support of this site, we are heading in the right direction, i sincerely hope you can find your direction, happiness and light at the end of this very long and dark tunnel. xx

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  50. Hi Anon

    I know my situation is quite different but I can understand how you feel about the lies and secrets , for me this was the real deal breaker , in our marriage vows we promised to " speak the truth in love " . I had no problem telling all the people who are important to me because I felt that I had to be honest with them just as I expected my wife to be honest with me . Although the first couple of years were really difficult for me and the thoughts of all the things she was doing with her OM played out in my mind every day this has changed over the years and now I couldn't care less , she made the CHOICE to be unfaithful , no one forced her , everything we do in life is a choice we make and honesty is a huge one for me , if you can't trust someone in a relationship then what else do you have
    As I have said , all our relationships are different and for those who can rebuild it I am truly happy for them . As many will say , take as long as you need to be sure and get as much support as you need to help you make the decision that is best for you

    Alan

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    1. I can't tell you how much your advice has given me strength. Thank you so much for taking the time to write. I copied him in on the post I made on this site and a few emails were exchanged. Writing seems a much better way to crystallise my thoughts. He came today and gave me a full account of his affair. I believe him when he says that it was more of a 'fix' that he became 'addicted' to. He said that he was never in love with her (which is v significant for me) or told her so. He never slept with her, just basic, animal sex! Feel relief. Hope we can begin to move forward. I do still love him, you can't switch it off that easily can you, and I know he still loves me. Maybe we can start to move forward from here. I want my happy life back. Thanks again x

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  51. Ladies, I need your advice. I am one year past D-day and for the most part my marriage is getting better. My husband seems to understand how bad what he did is. In summary, I found a lot of emails between him and another woman. They called each other baby and were obviously in a lot of contact, but there were not sexual innuendos or talking about meeting up. She did tell him to try to work this out for me and his reply was he did not want to do that. That email really hurt and I is always on the back of my mind.
    He told me where he met her and admitted it had been going on for 9 months. He said he never slept with her and that they had met for a few lunches. To be honest, I don't believe him. I think there was physical contact, but he insists no. We had gone to a therapist early on who had told me that she does not think he would be able to tell me if he had physical contact. I have come to terms with the fact that I will never know for sure. In my mind he did, but I believe he is afraid I will leave if he tells me. As for saying he didn't want to make things work with us, he said he did not mean that.
    When it first happened he told me to feel free and look at his emails and facebook. This is the problem. Last week, I admitted checking his email and he was not happy. He said he is not doing anything, but he feels violated with me looking at his email. He changed his password so I can not look anymore. I am not ok with this. It is really upsetting me, but I am trying to think of the right way to handle this. Any advice to give me to try and get him to understand what I am feeling. I did make an appointment with another therapist for us because although he feels horrible I don't think he gets why it is still so hard on me. I have good days and then some really bad days. Anyone else have this problem???

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    1. Hey anon,
      Been there. I totally get it.
      Remember this mantra, taken from Elle's post with the same name: "Your Heartbreak, Your Rules."

      Is he on board with understanding your heartbreak and willing to do whatever it is you need to feel trust? If not, why? Then, if you are willing, give him a chance to do some personal work to figure out how he can get on board.

      Some spouses are already there on d-day. But many aren't. Until they are, many of us are on our own for awhile. We can't count on our partners to be there for us. They have to "get it" before you can count on them. But don't let the fact that they don't, keep you from advocating for yourself, setting boundaries, and seeking out your own healing.

      My d-days were in late 2013. My H is just recently onboard with opening himself to my heartbreak, that he caused. He had to do alot of personal work. It is finally paying off but it was very, very hard on me. I have no support system-but I have alot of inner strength. Hopefully you can find both for yourself.

      Peace.
      -MBS

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    2. I think it comes down to how far he's willing to go to help you heal from the pain of his betrayal. Read this post, which makes the point that we don't WANT to feel like this. We want nothing more than to be past this. But it takes a long time and it takes a partner willing to work with us through these rough spots: http://betrayedwivesclub.blogspot.ca/2014/04/my-letter-to-husbands-just-talk-about.html

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    3. MBS, I hope you consider us a support system! And I think there's a lot to be said for defining yourself as someone who's got "inner strength". I think that can go a long toward refusing to allow yourself to be a victim in this. Yay for you! And thanks for sharing your strength here!

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  52. I'm 16 months out and for the first 8 months my husband lied his ass off until I looked further back through the bank statements and discovered more lies. One of the worst mistakes I made was to believe he told me everything about his affair. He was trying to protect me, control me and he was afraid I would leave. It took my husband over a year to tell me what I know now to be the truth. I checked to make sure he was telling the truth. Three strikes and he would have been out. Two was bad enough. I have access to all his communication venues. He tells me that is fine with him he hasn't anything to hide. Last week I called every local phone number on his phone just to see who called. There was a woman who answered and he didn't know who she was. I made him call her back to verify it wasn't the OW using someone else's phone. The woman said she called our house by mistake and didn't have a clue who we were. He is not allowed to delete anything not even his browsing history on the Internet. I look at all the communication once a week. Also his I pad doesn't automatically delete messages when he deletes them on his phone so use this to check as well. He has to earn my trust back. Trust is verb, an experience. I'm firm about these terms, he doesn't deserve any wiggle room. You might not want to hear this but it would be very hard in fantasy affair land not to have sex. Why bother with an affair for nine months if he couldn't get his rocks off. He is a caveman right just like other guys. His changing his password would make me super suspicious that he is still seeing her. Stay with your gut feelings they are probably right. You set the rules, don't back down. He feels violated? He should be worried you feel violated not him. You should not have to admit you checked his emails, there should be nothing to admit. He lost his right to privacy and secrets. You should be upset. Raise a god-awful hissy fit about it - State clearly to him what you need. I feel insecure so I need to read your emails right this very minute. I feel abandoned let me see your phone right now this very minute. I feel alone let me check your internet browsing history on all device right this very minute. You can also look at the data history on an I phone which will tell you the sites he accessed under settings. I feel like I'm not good enough I'm going to call the phone company tomorrow and get a read out of every number and call them all first thing in the morning. I ordered a years worth of back bank statements cost me $100 but it was worth it for my peace. I'm so sorry that you are hurting and confused but you need to set boundaries in order to stop this bullying behavior from your husband. He is bullying you in order to get his way. Sorry if I seem harsh but his behavior is not fair to you. You can either be shy and be miserable or face it head on and feel strong - you deserve it, you did nothing wrong and your not asking too much.

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  53. I just have to say I'm sick of all affair crap that goes on. I'm mad as hell and I'm not going to take it anymore. I'm not leaving the asshole somehow our marriage has survived and stronger, better but I'm not going to take any crap from him about anything that has to do with HIS affair. I have to have 100 percent transparency or I will go crazy and never get better. I still have unbelievable pain and hurt somedays. Somedays I have no hope that I'm going to heal and just want to lock myself in the closet and never come out. Somedays I feel weak, deserted, not good enough and can cry nonstop for several hours even now as my dear sister is my life line listening for hours about the same crap over and over. She is kind and acts like it it the first time she heard this story. I'm just tired of it all the affair crap for me and all my girlfriends on this site.

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    1. I agree with Lynn on the transparency. My H was sexting multiple random women to make himself feel better. The one I have a tough time with was the one he actually knew. She was from his HS and 3 states away. There was an opportunity once to meet. He swears they didn't, but I can't let that go. 20 months since DDay and he still swears they didn't. I was nearby at the same time so I wasn't far and could have caught him if they were. I have resigned that I either need to believe him and move on or drive myself crazy as I cannot find proof that they met. She is also married with a small child. She is a disgusting POS and now scared to death of me as she knows I know about them communicating. My husband has given me all access to everything. He is open. Since it has been 20 months past DDay, he would like to know when I can fully trust him again and I think he get's a little hurt when I want to check things, but he doesn't hesitate. I just ask him "how would you feel if the tables were turned?". I don't like feeling suspicious and I am getting better. Trust is a valuable thing and hard to get back, especially with this kind of betrayal. He was supposed to be the one you could depend on and keep your heart safe. When that is damaged, as we all know too well, that brings your whole world crumbling down because your foundation has been shattered. How do you rebuild? One brick at a time. It takes time to remove the debris and rebuild it. Everyone has their own timeframe. Your H needs to look at this more constructively. Your H needs to understand he is rebuilding trust whether the betrayal was physical or not. It is still a betrayal of what you promised each other.

      And I also agree with Lynn about being sick of the affair crap! Who do these guys think they are that they can do what they want and have minimal consequences. You screwed up, if you want to fix things it takes time and lots of it. So either get on board with that or don't, but I'm going to protect me now since you failed to do so.

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  54. I am almost on year out and I still think my husband is lying. He admitted to meeting the OW nine years ago for about 2 months in a park where their previous "friendship" of coach and mother of player became physical escalating to sex (only once). He said after he had sex with her he felt horrible and told her never again and refused to talk to her about it again but they remained friends. This long term friendship became daily talking to and from work for the most part with occasional meetings for coffee on his way home from work....he said about once a month or so. He says nothing happened during this period of time. It was platonic. I ordered 18 months of phone records to see that on occasion the calls he made to her were up to 88 in a month...if he couldn't reach her, he kept calling until he did. He said he just called her out of habit and her constant chatter kept his mind occupied as he was going through anxiety (GAD). Then last year he agreed to meet her again at a park where they became physical again-making out and fondling and apparently no sex. I find it hard to believe that nothing happened during the meetings from 9 years ago and last year. He and she both say it didn't. Should I believe it? She is also married so I don't expect she would be any more forthcoming with the truth than he is. His story hasn't changed and he has given me all his passwords for all electronics etc and I check them regularly including the find my iPhone so I can see where he is as it shows his current location..and he knows to never turn it off. But I am stuck with the do I believe him or not. I am certain he hasn't met with her as I can see where he is all the time unless he leaves his phone in a location and goes off with her but my son works at the same place and is aware of everything and also keeps an eye on him. So, I agree, you need to make sure you have all the passwords and keep an eye on him. If he is not good with that then I would be very suspicious. If my husband were not able to offer me that without being nervous about it then I wouldn't believe that it was over with the OW. He needs to understand that its what you need to feel more secure and to start to rebuild trust. I honestly don't believe I will ever completely trust my husband the way I did before but my therapist said I will get to the point where it will be enough. I hope she is right. I think its normal to be stuck, especially if you aren't sure you have the entire truth. I feel like there is more that he isn't telling me but I don't know how to get confirmation either way. Maybe I should tell her husband and see what he can find out. Any comments would be greatly appreciated.

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    1. I'm an advocate for telling the Other Spouse in large part because I think they deserve the opportunity to decide whether they want to be in a marriage with someone who has betrayed them. What's more, I would want them to tell me if I was still ignorant of it.
      As for the details, you might find out the whole story, you might not. Eight years out, I'm not sure it even matters. Affairs are about the lies and the deception. I think it's true that a spouse who has come completely clean about everything is better able to move forward in a marriage based on absolute truth. Those still holding secrets are, perhaps, somehow muddled by them. I think therapy is important for this, to help recovering cheaters recognize the value in coming clean, in living a life of integrity. Is your husband in therapy?

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  55. My husband is in therapy with me. We go as a couple now. Previously we went individually to separate therapists so he could also learn to handle his anxiety. The initial affair started nine years prior however their most recent encounter was one year ago where they apparently didn't have sex but made out and he fondled her breasts. If it was just the 9 years ago, i would let it go. However, with the constant contact during the 9 years and being caught one year ago still leads me to have suspicions that there was a lot more than just talking going on for the 9 years. They both say they were just friends but how do I believe that. Why would you stay in CONSTANT contact with someone you cheated on you wife with if you were not planning on doing it again...why wouldn't you cut off all ties? It does matter to me because if they were in fact having sex the entire 9 years and he is still lying to me about it, then I cannot and will not forgive that. It means that after all the hurt he has already caused me and all the promises that he is telling the truth and will never lie again and will never hurt me again that he still doesn't care enough to tell me the truth. Maybe I should believe him, but what man stays in constant contact with a woman he cheated on his wife with and he says he never wanted to again. Why wouldn't he sever all ties with her, there was no reason to be in contact with her any longer. Her son was no longer being coached by my son (for about 7 or 8 years now that ended). Am I being naive to think he may be telling me the truth? Should I believe him? Or, is he still lying to me and treating me like the fool I obviously was to believe him for the past 9 years? How could I have ever been so blind to all this. Why didn't I question more "signs"?

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    1. Anne,
      STOP beating yourself up over this. HE cheated. It didn't matter whether you did or didn't see the signs. You're going to make yourself crazy trying to figure this out. The short of it is that he betrayed your trust. And he wants you to "forgive" him because of his anxiety. I don't doubt that anxiety and the desire to escape that constant knot is a powerful driver to seek out distraction. But that's for HIM to deal with.
      Your challenge is to find a way through this without losing yourself. I suspect that living with him and his anxiety has had a huge impact on you. Please, if you're not already in counselling, find someone who can help you through this. And see my note below.
      Anne, you'll get there. You will. But this is a marathon, not a sprint.

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    2. You WILL get through this and you will be better. I keep a saying from Churchill in mind..."If you're going through hell, keep on going." You can do this- you are not to blame for his choices. This process takes time and it can be rough, but there will be an end. You're grieving- grief hurts. Be patient with yourself and be kind to yourself (says the woman who still has down-in-the-dumps days).
      C.

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  56. I don't know how much more of this I can take a year out and I can't stand the pain. Maybe this bottle of Oxycodone from my surgery is the only answer to stop the pain. I can't take it anymore. How does everyone manage to get by with this pain. How could he have destroyed me like this. Why can't I get past this. Why does this hurt so much? I don't think I can do this anymore.

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    1. Anne please...absolute nothing and nobody is worth your life. Please don't give anybody that much power over you.
      I want you to call a hotline: 1-800-784-2433 or 1-800-273-8255 or text 1-800-799-4889. And then I want you to call a therapist and make an appointment. You need support through this, someone who can listen and help you.
      And I want you to know this: You WILL get through this. I promise you. It won't be easy. But it will happen. You are stronger than this. You are stronger than HE is. You deserve so much better than this but you have to fight for it. I know you're exhausted. I know you can't imagine you'll ever feel anything but pain. I was there. I wanted out, just like you.
      And yet...here I am. Barely able to remember what that felt like.
      Promise me you'll call the hotline or a good friend. Cry yourself to sleep if you have to. But wake up tomorrow and begin the path toward healing.

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    2. Hi its Polly here,
      Please Anne do not hurt yourself I have taken two overdoses because I could not cope anymore with my husbands betrayal and continued contact with OW.
      It really does not help. the second time I meant it so took enough to kill an horse (I had even researched how many of my prescription tablets would be fatal) Goodness knows how I survived but after intensive and critical care I did survive and now realise that all it was is a permanent solution to a problem not of my own making. I lived and am glad I did because things are slowly easing up. It will take a very long time but I believe these lovely sensible woman that it WILL get better and if I had not been able to be pulled back I would have missed that my son and his partner are to have their first baby. plus what a terrible legacy to leave my grandchildren with. so I bear the pain and carry on until it fades. Please look after yourself. We all care about you ,honestly we do.
      I have been struggling once again, actually not my husbands fault this time its just me tormenting myself until I feel sick and ill. I keep thinking about OW those vile photos keep flashing into my mind. Is it normal to keep tormenting myself like this. Things have been a little better between my husband and I so why the flashbacks. it is all so painful I keep crying but the one thing I am certain of Anne is no man is worth dying over
      Keep strong and Brave love Polly

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    3. Anne. How are you? Please remember this has everything to do with your husband and not YOU You have done nothing to deserve this and it's horrible that the pain lands in us. The desperate pain. I would guess most of us on this site know EXACTLY where you have been. I too had access to the "big guns". Drug wise. No way would I let anyone do that to me. I had to realize I wanted the pain to stop. NOT my life. Let us know you are ok

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  57. Like Lynn Pain above, I have reached my breaking point in the affair crap. I finally have had enough or trying to "be understanding." "Oh, if I could just understand this, I could work it through..." From Day One one year ago next week, I have tried to be the "adult." Talk to me, let me understand what happened....
    We started MC again about three weeks ago and each session has been very painful for me- and for him to some extent. But the sessions have focused on me and my low self-esteem and how there are no answers...etc. And I like our counselor- she's good, but we never processed the (emotional) affairs that stretched through two women and 10 years. And I finally figured out that's what I needed.
    I finally figured out that what I needed from him was total honesty- not bs answers, not I don't knows, not probably's. And today I pushed him..and pushed.
    It started with me purging the travel books I'd accumulated while I "planned" dream trips. He asked why I was giving them away and I said we may as well be honest- we were never going anywhere. You promised to take me her and there, but I'm still waiting, so why keep this shit? And then I pushed him on how many times he called her on our "vacations." I said total honesty now, because I suspect I know the answers- I need you to validate them...and out it came. Not once or twice like he said in our old MC- but mutliple times. Yes! I think he finally realized that he had tainted those very few trips we took with his cheating. Finally. More questions I suspected he'd given bs answers to... Answers came pouring out..then the tough questions he's evaded in MC...did you ever feel guilty? And I don't want to hear probably..it's a yes or no answer....so? Yes. Then why didn't you stop? Why did you keep going since you knew you were doing something wrong? And out came a story...that I could actually believe. And I kept pushing until I'd covered all the shit I knew he had been lying about since last April. And then...I said get her out of this house. You still have things from her here and I'm tired of bumping into her when I'm cleaning things out. This is the third time I've asked you. Do it. "But I'd have to turn the house upside down." SO??? I don't care- get rid of her. It's been a year. You can start with your car, your on-line accounts, your dresser..
    Was this me? And we had such a good, quiet talk after I pushed him. I had just had it, and I guess I let him know it. And for whatever reason, it worked. I don't know that it would work for everyone, and I wasn't sure it would work for me, but I had just had enough and needed to break through some kind of barrier. For now, I feel as though a wall has finally been knocked down. That we can now begin the work of talking about those horrible years (which we have not done) and figure out what was going on, how the affairs affected him, and how they evolved. I don't need a why- I've got that...I needed the why couldn't you stop? And I may never get a full answer, but I'll take what he can give me as long as it's "I don't know." I think I'll sleep a bit tonight. I'm exhausted, but I fell a hell of a lot better than I have in three weeks.
    C.

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    1. C,
      Wow. You must feel emotionally drained but, I bet, somehow feeling a bit more peace. It's bizarre, isn't it? All we want is answers -- honest answers. It makes a huge difference to have someone just meet us halfway.

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    2. I do...it's so weird. I was so drained yesterday- sleepy all day, exhausted- all the adrenaline left. And I haven't thought much about the past year very much yesterday and today. I hope this lasts!!
      C.

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  58. Hi everyone ... it breaks my heart to think of all the new people to this site. Elle, you are truly a compassionate person for allowing this outlet to be available.

    I am 5 months post D-day and doing ok ... it scares me to read about having intense flash backs -- a year out. It makes me not want to fight for my marriage, quite frankly. I don't know why.

    My husband and I have been separated for almost 6 weeks now and it's truly been a blessing to be around my family and have that distance between us. He has truly "woken up" and has been able to say - with conviction - the things I need to hear to even begin this journey. For so long -- over 4 months!! -- my husband was in the affair fog and it about killed me. Hence the separation on my part. He is begging to have us back, but I am just not sure I am ready. It kills me to hear my 20 month old call her uncles "daddy" but I just don't know if too much damage was done in those 4 months when he couldn't get his head out of his a$$.

    I read this blog daily ... so just thought I would give an update. I read the "not in love" with you piece that you posted, Elle ... and it made a lot of sense. Things have changed for him, dramatically ... it just seems I have moved on, some.

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    1. I wished I would have separated. I did ask my husband to move out but out therapist advised against it. It would have given me some time to clear my head. I don't feel like I really got a chance to have some peace of mind without looking at the offender.

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    2. Abi,
      Yep to the roller coaster. I'm so glad to hear that the separation has given you the time and space to begin to sort through what you want. Whatever you choose, you will have done so with eyes wide open and from a place of conviction. That's important. Neither choice is easy.

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  59. Meant to write who it was ... it's Abi, on the last post!

    I meant to add ... does anyone else get very, very deflated with any small argument or hiccup? My negativity is like PERVASIVE if ANYTHING goes wrong between us. My H was hungry and in a bad mood .... kind of snapped at me ... and immediately my mine went to, "this is NEVER going to work."

    Ugh. Such a roller coaster.

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  60. C--seriously GOOD for you. I have been doing a lot of reading on what makes a marraige salvagable after an affair and it is shocking how much of it depends on the husbands abilty to come clean and stop being big babies or thinking that WE ARE and trying to "protect' us, by withholding information. It is crazy making to us. If they don't have the +desire+ to come clean--(because I think we ALL have the ability, we just chose not to)--then we are all but relegated to feeling like crap forever.
    It should be exactly what YOU want and what YOu need and I am glad you are finally getting that.
    Without a doubt, it's exhausting either way.
    But at least when you get the Info you need you know what you are dealing with, which is exactly how it should be.

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  61. Elle, thank you for your comments the other day. They did help. I was fortunate that my sons girlfriend came home unexpectedly and brought me a treat as she knew I wasn't in a good state of mind. It made me feel better and made me realize that I am looking forward to having grandchildren someday in the near future that I want to enjoy, As I get through this betrayal, no matter what the outcome, I want to be around to see my grandchildren someday. I just have to persevere.
    To C- Your story has given me some hope. We have so much in common including the timing. In a couple weeks it will be a year and I also feel like I am missing so much info. I am going to try to get some nerve and do as you did. Wish me luck.

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    1. Glad to hear Anne. Stay focussed on your someday grandchildren...and trust that, in the meantime, your pain will lessen and you'll be able to feel even glimpses of joy. And when that happens, those little slivers of happiness or even hints of happiness, hang on to them for dear life. Trust that they will pull you toward even more light. It takes a helluva long time. But you'll get there. And when you do, you'll realize just how strong and resilient and wonderful you are.

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  62. I want to tell all of us something.

    We are survivors - yes even now with this madness. Elle gave us this refuge in the storm and instead of burying our heads in the sand we grabbed her lifeline and even now we hold on for dear life.

    We are fierce!! We are WOMEN!!

    Fred was a great dancer - many say the greatest dancer that ever graced the silver screen. BUT -- Ginger Rogers did EVERYTHING Fred did - every single step!! Ginger Rogers did all that amazing dancing BACKWARDS and in HIGH HEELS!!

    We can do this. We may be put down, pushed away and have our hearts ripped out with NO anesthesia but WE WILL come out the other side much stronger than we were when the madness started.

    I'm at a really low point this morning (3AM my time) but I saw this person talk about Ginger Rogers on television - it gave me a little hope.

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    1. I love Ginger Rogers. And you're right. She never really got the credit she deserved.
      It might sound kinda flakey but I do feel strong and fierce for having weathered this storm. I refuse to say it was a good thing but I can see that working through it has brought certain gifts into my life, not least of which is all the amazing women I meet on this site every single day. We're so strong and so tender and so worth fighting for.

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  63. It's been a year since discovery day. I continue to process what happened this last year.

    Every violated person has his/her own story and circumstance. When my world shattered, I could not think straight. The following is my list I would give to any person in this situation. All items are equally weighted.

    1. He decided to do this because of his issues. You can't fix him. What does he want now? If he is unwilling to stop, provide proof it's over, it is time to ask hard questions: Does he love her? If the answer is yes, you must make a difficult decision: Is this relationship worth saving.

    2. Therapy. If possible, both you and he need the same therapist for individual and joint sessions. The therapist evaluates both sides and works on each patient's issues to resolve the conflict. The conflict may be deep rooted from personal childhoood matters and possibly cannot be resolved.

    3. Do something which gives you purpose and value. When the person whom we believed love us exclusively has caused pain and doubt, it is mandatory to your mental survival to seek love and acceptance from those whom do love and value who you are. You have value, you are loved. Surround your self with these souls.

    4. Where is the money? Protect your self. Open a bank account with just your name. Fund it the best you possibly can. If your marriage stays intact, you have created a personal emergency fund. If it does not, you have to disclose the account in case of divorce but you have funds which cannot be taken from you by your spouse. You have something to live on if necessary.

    5. Does your spouse have a mental issue? Borderline Narcissistic Personality Disorder, Adult Child of Alcoholics, Alcoholic Personality [he is not an alcoholic] is at my house. This is where therapy is my life-line. I now understand he is emotionally void, deflects or twists conflict, chooses to hold on to anger and I am not the horrible person he made me feel like. He is miserable with who he is and I cannot fix him. The OTW could not heal his pain. I only have control over me.

    6. Have a plan. Where do you want to be in two years? This is hard home work. It requires personal evaluation and it may not be the result you want or desire.

    7. Couples therapy is finite. There comes a point when the issues have been beaten to death and can't be hashed out any more. Either there is movement from both parties, or there is not.

    8. Be CAREFUL and selective whom you share your situation and pain.

    After one year, I still do not know the state of my marriage. I am in my early 60's and have 40+ years with this man. This is a process and a personal discovery. I am grateful for the BWC blog and my sisters on this journey.

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  64. My 2nd year DDay is coming up 12th April. I am in the middle of a 3 week period when the worse things happened to me in lies and deceipt.
    I am still with my husband of 30 years. But can't stop feeling that he's got away with it! Don't know if you feel that way? He wants to forget it happened and gets annoyed that I mention it every day. I guess I ask questions because I have not had all the answers. He says she meant nothing to him! I still don't believe him on that one either.
    If she meant nothing, no feelings then why on 18th March when our 1st Grandchild was born 7 and half weeks premature weighing 4and half pounds did he not call her and say over? Why on 24th March when I found him with another mobile phone did he not call her and say over? Why on the 5th April when we went out for our friends birthday did he take me to one side and cuddle me and say he loved me that he was being an idiot texting sex lines did he not call her and say it's over. Why one day next week 2 years ago did he go and meet her ?
    God there are so many why's and now if he made a mistake why is it only a mistake when on the 12th April I looked at his (normal) mobile phone record which caught him out and went to her house where she hid inside and sent her husband out it was over then. They both said it was a mistake!
    You only want to do something you knows wrong if it's nice? No????

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    1. This is why I am grateful for therapy. Moving forward, letting go, wanting to know WHY...IMO... is difficult with a therapist guiding the dialogue. Without the assistance, defenses go up, old behavior repeats, and satisfactory answers illusive.

      I will never forget what he did and not sure if I will ever forgive him. But, I give me permission to get on with my life. I only have control over me.

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    2. Jane,
      So much of recovery depends on our husband's ability to truly own up to the damage they caused and support us as we heal. Nobody is served (including him) by sweeping it under the rug. He might think that's the easiest way to deal with this but all it does is make the anger and resentment simmer, which ultimately hurts the marriage. I hope he's able to see that by acknowledging your pain and supporting you through it, it will dissipate so much more quickly. We need our pain seen and heard and acknowledged. Frankly I think that's the price they pay for us even considering giving them a second chance.

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  65. This quotation from Paul Coelho popped up on my FB page from a friend- I found it valuable in framing discussions with my H:
    "A mistake repeated more than once is a decision."
    I remembered that quotation in our last MC session when my H said, "I made a mistake, and now I'm getting blasted for it." (Well, duh...ye-ah!) That's when I said I disagreed with his statement and used a variation of the quotation ("...a weekend is a mistake. Even a couple of months I can see as a mistake, but the first time you felt guilty and knew you were doing something wrong and kept doing it...you moved from "it just happened" to a conscious decision and you made a choice. You no longer can say it just happened, because it didn't. You CHOSE.") I think we have to remember this, as painful as it can be, and we have to be even more careful NOT to follow this argument with "so why didn't you choose me?" (Guilty party here.) It was about HIS choice and it hurts because he didn't make the right choice or decision and he is no longer the man we thought he was. And we have to reconcile that with our new view of him. And. it. hurts.
    C.

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    1. And another way to say this is " For every conscious decision there are consequences." ( my therapist) Yes, our view of our partner is radically changed. When I was having major doubts about staying, I read that we can view our broken marriage like a valuable antique lamp. It was whole and one day it got knocked over. You can pick up the shattered pieces and glue them together, or throw it out. Only you can decide...

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    2. Hi

      Just a couple of comments , one for anonymous , a saying my old father used to say " anyone can make a mistake but when we make the same mistake twice or more it is not a mistake it is a choice we make " In my case after I read the texts in my wife's phone , one of them said " I know what I'm doing is wrong but I love being with you so much I never want us to stop " that's a choice
      To Pilots wife , yes you can pick up the pieces and glue them back together but no matter how well you glue the back together you can always see the cracks .
      Just my thoughts

      Alan

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    3. C,
      Yeah...I don't buy the "mistake" bullshit. Affairs are choices. If he honestly didn't know that what he was doing was wrong, then he's got a lot bigger problem than he realizes. That's the definition of a psychopath. So, no. He's just minimizing what he did because he doesn't want to take responsibility for his choice. A lot of guys (and women) do this at first because, frankly, the guilt and shame can feel overwhelming to them (and that's a good sign. Means they're NOT psychopaths). But it can't last. At some point, he needs to own up to the fact that he knew what he was doing was wrong and he made the choice to do it anyway. I doubt he imagined just how much damage his choice would make...but that doesn't matter. A drunk driver doesn't think he's going to hurt anyone either. But he's still held accountable for getting behind the wheel of a car and for any damage caused as a result of that choice.

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    4. Thanks for clarifying the idea of mistakes.
      My H deeply regrets his "mistakes." But I don't know if he really recognizes that these were really an accumulation of very bad choices--ery selfish ones, driven by his unconsciousness.
      He is working on exploring what happened for him to make the decisions he did but I think he and they all work very hard to make their choices sound or feel forgiveable (i.e a "mistake"). But really, for it to be forgiveable, they need to show us how they plan on never falling into making selfish and unconscious choices like this again.

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  66. I am almost a year out now and just a few weeks ago I thought I was doing a little better. The little while have been pure torture. I was making progress and now I feel like I have been thrown back to day one. I am still having visions of them together but they have gone from me seeing them together as though in a movie to me being right beside them watching them in the flesh. I have gone from crying about once a week to several times a day. I have more anger again. Is it because the one year anniversary of D-Day is approaching? Has anyone experienced this? Why does this happen? Will it last long or am I going to have to go through it all again to get to the same place again next year, I am tired, not sleeping well and feel like I am sinking into a deep depression. I am seeing a therapist and she does help but I don't know what else to do to help this. Will waiting it out help? I can't imagine living my life without my husband, yet I know I will never forget and its unlikely that I will forgive this. Will I be angry forever? I know I need more answers, but how do I get them if he honestly doesn't remember what I need to know? He could be lying and I don't know how to get to the truth. I will be telling him that I want to forgive him however, its impossible to forgive when I don't know what exactly I am trying to forgive as I don't have the answers to the important questions. I feel like he has put the whole affair into a compartment in his mind where he doesn't have to think about it or deal with it, which I don't believe is healthy or helping him deal with the issues that led him to the affair to begin with. He just says, he would never do it again as he has seen the pain he caused me and it kills him to see it. Maybe this is true but whats to stop him from compartmentalizing my pain and doing it again with her or someone else? Something else I am going to have to bring up in therapy. This site has been a gift to me. Being able to read others stories that are similar and people who are farther along in recovery has helped me so much. Thank you Elle for providing this site for all of us. I am sure everyone else agrees that this site has been very helpful-even if its just to see that we are not alone in our thoughts and feelings.

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    1. Anne,
      A resounding YES to your question re. anti-versaries dredging up old pain. It's extremely common (not just re. infidelity with any prior pain/trauma/grief) to notice that old feelings are bubbling up, things you thought you'd dealt with resurfacing, etc. Our subconscious keeps tracks of things like dates/events. It's not regressing so much as "recycling". It's a chance to circle around old issues and pay attention to anything that's not totally resolved. A year out means that there's probably lots of things that still need addressing but the raw pain has started to recede.
      No, you're not going to spiral down and down, though I know how scary that can feel. Just notice what's happening. Pay attention to where the pain is and what it's around. Those are clues about what still needs addressing.
      That said, pay attention also to how long this lasts. Once the initial shock wears off, many of us do fall into a depression, a sort of numbness.
      Everything else you describe is so "normal" -- the awareness that he could be lying, the fear that you're letting your guard down. The way out is to begin to really trust in your own strength. To know that, no matter what anyone else does, YOU will be fine. That YOU can keep yourself safe. Doesn't mean you'll never feel pain again, or be disappointed. It just means that you've got the strength and resilience to handle whatever life throws your way.

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  67. Dear Anne

    Things you said are what I think and feel.
    I thought in my mind, when someone has an affair and gets caught and realises their mistake they come clean tell the truth which helps the other person forgive and move on. I am shocked that they carry on lying unable to be honest and change the story each time. I think when you're the person that had an affair you don't understand that the other person needs the story needs the truth.
    I'm nearly at 2 years and hes now started to say it's been a long time he can't remember! How can you not remember which coffee shop at the mall you say in!! To me he's saying I'm not going to tell you. That hurts. He says he's forgotten all about her, can't remember what she looks like and only thinks of her when I bring it up. Which means I don't want to talk. 2 years on I should know everything and we should be healing and rebuilding but all I'm doing is asking questions still!
    I've just started seeing a new MC and hope he will come along. I feel it's my last chance if saving our marriage cos I can not put this hell into a box and place a lid on it and forget!!!

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    1. Jane,
      Good luck with the new therapist. Focus on you. On what you need. Use the time to heal yourself.

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  68. One year out…
    I’m in the middle of the three-day 1st year anit-versary period. On April 8, 2014 I discovered he had his phone in bed with him early in the morning and the lies began. After searching for proof of whatever for two days, I realized I could simply look at the phone records. My world was turned upside down on April 10 at 7:35 pm. I was hoping to get through this period with little upset, but no. Instead, I simply received another validation of something I had suspected all along. During a discussion of taking vacations, he told me that he really wasn’t a traveller and did not enjoy vacations. Now, understand that he went on military training trips for two weeks every summer, and came back all excited about those trips with promises that we would go there. Our vacations, however, were strained and uncomfortable. I always felt like I was dragging him to places he didn’t want to go. Like he was simply my chauffeur. It was odd. I suspect he preferred the training trips when he was with his military buddies. And then, of course, during our vacations, he couldn’t stay off the phone with her, either. So more mourning and resetting my image of our failed marriage. I’m not sure my image could be much blacker than it is now. Is there nothing redeemable in the last 10 years?
    So where are we now? We are in a better place, but is it good? No. Not yet. There is still much work to do. In many ways, he still does not seem to understand the damage this has done to me or to our marriage, but I think he is finally beginning to get it. That may be because he could not cut off communication with her completely for about 6 months- it was a working relationship, of course- that’s how it started. In many ways, the anguish has become about him. He feels guilty, he failed, he is sorry. But he does not acknowledge how I feel. He says he knows he hurt me and that he betrayed me- good steps forward-, but he never has said things like, you must feel devastated, humiliated, shamed. I did that and I’m sorry. I’ve done this to you, I can never make up for it, but I will do whatever you need me to do to help you overcome these feelings. (But he has willingly gone to MC and personal counseling.)
    We are more honest and open with each other- hence the newest upset about vacations. “I’m not a traveller.” What does that mean? That you didn't mean it when you promised me you would take me to this place or that? That I have to give up my travel dreams for you? I will not do it any longer- I did that way too much in our marriage. (“Oh, you don't like doing this? Well, ok, we don't have to anymore.”) I will no longer defer to him for what I want. What I want counts, too. So perhaps he will have to start deferring to me once in awhile. There should be a balance. Our marriage was way out of balance.
    We know we love each other. That is the biggest step forward. We still struggle with how to show our love- we each have different ways. Showing is big for him; I want words. We both struggle with that- especially him. I’ve learned he really doesn’t have words to describe what he feels or thinks. I never knew that. And yet, if he is so big on SHOWING love, then why is she still in our house? Why have I had to ask him (3 times)- and last time, demand- that he get rid of all signs of her from whatever is left in his dresser, in his car, in his on-line accounts…why is she still here? Why has he not yet done the hard work to show me that he deserves my trust again? There will be one more request/demand. And I have to think of an appropriate consequence- my mind hovers around leaving the house until he has done what I ask. (I have an image from the movie Poltergeist in my head…”This house is clean.”) But will that make things worse? So we still have a long way to go. Trust is not yet restored; unconditional love is not yet restored. Fear is still present.
    Continued....
    C.

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  69. Continued....The bottom line is that we both fucked up our marriage. How was he supposed to know how I felt about giving up things I wanted to do unless I told him? He couldn’t. And how was I supposed to know what he felt unless he told me? And the stressors in our marriage- that all piled on at one time- our son’s ADD and related addictions, my dad’s cancer, supporting my parents during dad’s decline, his death, my new job, H’s retirement, and then the not so good end of my career. My god, how was anyone supposed to live through that? What horrible years. I struggle to remember ONE good thing out of that time. So does he.
    So out go all reminders of those 10 years. Purging, putting things away where I won’t stumble over them. I want to be done with it. Get it all out or stored away in a remote place.
    Nothing excuses his poor choices- and I wonder if wayward spouses truly understand the need we have to be let in to their lives during the betrayal. I was shut out of his life for 10 years. I want in. I want to know what was going on during that time with him. Only he has that knowledge and information. Only he can fill in those blanks- the blanks about why he couldn't stop even when he knew it was wrong- the blanks about how he was feeling about himself- the blanks about what really was going on with that first woman? I won’t be kept out ever again. Any little thing he can tell me is going to help me. It doesn’t matter if it hurts- it helps me…and I think they don’t understand that. Maybe it’s because they are so wrapped up in their own pain and disbelief in what they did. It’s like they can’t tell us because they don't want to cause any more pain or face what they did…but they don't understand that, for us, going through hell is better than absence of hell.
    And I don't think they understand the shame and humiliation WE feel. We were supposed to “keep” our spouses. We couldn’t. What does that say about us? While most of us can logically say this wasn’t my fault, our emotions have not yet caught up with that logic and we feel that we let our spouse down, we let ourselves down, we let societal expectations down, families, etc. We. Are. Embarrassed. And if this was a long-term betrayal, like mine was, then how is this NOT about us? Sure, a weekend, a couple of months- I could say it wasn’t about me then. But 10 YEARS? How is this NOT about me? When will my emotional outlook catch up to the logic? And I don't think wayward spouses understand that.
    And I’ve forgiven a lot. If I had not already forgiven much of this, I could not be with him. I could not abuse myself and stay with him if I had not forgiven a lot…and frankly, if he had not begun his transformation into the spouse I always wanted. I’m not sure he understands that, either. I think it’s possible he thinks that forgiving means never discussing it again, pretending it never happened, “moving on.” I haven’t forgiven everything- not sure yet how to forgive shopping for her while I’m attending to my dying dad, or while I’m recovering from surgery. Not sure how to do that, or if I will be able to do that…and I’ve learned it will be ok if I can’t forgive it, too. We’re not all saints- and I certainly will no longer be a martyr to my marriage.
    One more post....
    C.

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  70. Last one...
    So we have a long way to go, but we have also had progress. And I suppose that’s the best we can all hope for- progress towards restoring love, restoring trust, building a new, happier life together. We have bad habits to change. We have to accept the discomfort that comes with change. We have to practice communicating- and that’s uncomfortable, too. We didn’t do the hard work of building a marriage when we were supposed to be doing that work for the last 36 years because we didn't know how to do it. And now we’re paying the price. Now it’s back to school. And it’s uncomfortable. We have to restore balance in our marriage- no more deferring for me, now I have to learn how to ask for what I need, and he has to learn to ask for what he needs. And that’s not easy, either. We have a lot of work to do. Let’s get going.
    C.

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    1. C,
      I honestly believe the only way a marriage can survive infidelity (especially 10 YEARS!!) is to basically say, the first marriage is dead. Are we going to create a second marriage? If the answer is yes, then you set about building a marriage that's based on honesty and a commitment to ensuring that both partner's needs are being met, within reason. It sounds as if you sacrificed much of yourself and your wants/needs in order to keep the peace and not rock the boat. That works in the short term but is harmful long term for both of you. You need to learn to ask for what you want/need. And he needs to learn to help meet those wants/needs, within reason. Nobody gets everything they want or need. Compromises will be made. But that's what marriage is about. Sometimes you get exactly what you want, sometimes you get some of what you want, and sometimes you give up what you want -- but nobody should always get what they want and nobody should never get what they want. Sorry if that sounds confusing -- I hope you understand what I'm saying.
      This is your second marriage. And I'm with you. It's up to him to help you heal through this. As Steam put it, "MY heartbreak, MY rules." If he won't agree to that, then you've pretty much got the same guy (focussed on self at the expense of you) and need to determine if you're okay with that. If you're not, and he's unwilling to change, then maybe it's time to move forward without him.

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    2. Elle
      That is one of the things I really struggle with , I can divide my married life in two halves , the first 18 years when we seemed to have a happy marriage then the last 12 when we have had no marriage at all , what the last 12 years have done is destroy any thoughts of happiness in the first 18 , other than our children I feel I have wasted the last 30 years of my life with a woman who I wish I had never meet
      Because of all the lies and secrets about her affair I question everything that happen during those first 18 years and now when I look back at those 18 years they are know where near as happy as I thought they were at the time because I will never know how much of it was lies and secrets just like her affair . Just for me to start again would confirm that all those " years of the first marriage are wasted time "
      Just me
      Alan

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    3. Alan, I think we all struggle with that division, the before and after. My husband cheated after 26 years of marriage. It was brief and he ended it immediatey, before I found out. Even with all of his heartfelt regret and his honesty about the affair, I will never know, really know, it this was the only time. Because, honestly, how will we ever believe them completely? I have gone back through time and dissected our entire marriage, looking for signs of previous lies, etc. It finally came to me that I'll never know for sure and I can only look at our current relationship to make my decision. I see so much good in him, so much remorse, so much willingness to help me heal, so much acceptance of blame on his part. I've decided to stop looking back and try to move forward. Only time will tell.

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    4. Alan and RT,
      I think that division of before and after will exist in perpetuity. However, if we've been able to turn the "after" into a "happily ever" (or reasonable facsimile), then that division becomes the point at which we realize our life took a turn...and brought us to a better place. We're able to see the lessons learned, the wisdom gained, the compassion felt. It's when our "after" is only bleak and misery, then the "before" seems somehow glorified.
      Each of us gets to be the architects of our "after". There are limitations, sure. But we get to decide whether "after" signifies positive change.

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  71. Dear Friends, I've been lurking on this blog site for a few months now. I feel as if I'm in a never ending state of stress where the bottom is never the bottom, but I think we may have hit the bottom today. Each week/month, I discover something new about my husband's affair(s). The initial discovery came about 4.5 months ago when I found a tablet and phone in his car and he told me he'd been sleeping with a couple women he met online. A month later, I found $14,000 in cash stashed in his car which he said he might need in case I kicked him out and he needed to find an apartment. A month after that, I found the tablet he had been using for pursuing women. He told me he "gave it away", but there it was. It's been unused because he can't remember the password and this I do believe as my husband is notorious for not retaining anything not written down. Last weekend, I found out through our accountant that he cashed in one of our 401k at around $25,000. At the time, he told me he lost it at the horse track by a friend that told him "the fix is in". This is just not my husband. My husband doesn't take those type of risks - he just takes the risks where he gambles his family away. This morning, he did the full disclosure thing. This is a first for him since everything I've found out is because I've clawed my way through his car looking at every piece of crumpled up paper. This morning he disclosed to me that one of the women he was sleeping with ended up pregnant from a failed condom. I do believe he was smart enough to use protection and I do believe that we may now have hit the bottom of the barrel. She wanted to keep the baby. She's here on a student visa studying yoga. Isn't that perfect? It finally came down to the payout and he paid her $20,000 to terminate the pregnancy. Half was delivered up front and the other half was delivered once he saw the records. Just writing this down, I can't even believe what I'm writing. Ladies, this isn't fixable is it? It's the strangest thing because on one level, I feel as if I really know him. I think he's good. I don't even think he's a bad person. However, I'm so broken hearted, I can't see or think straight. We're supposed to see a new therapist on Thursday, but tonight, I kicked him out. I think he's coming home in the morning and I'm not sure if I'm going to file for divorce tonight, wait it out until Thursday, I just don't know. I know the whole world is sleeping and right now, I wish I had an answer the size of a ten ton truck to knock me in the head and show me the way. Please help. Thank you.

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    1. I'm sorry this has got to feel absolutely horrible. Have you told him you never signed up to be on the Jerry Springer show?! The yoga teacher was probably playing him like a fool, maybe an old fool but $20,000 for an abortion seems high, so maybe he paid her to keep her mouth shut. If I were you, I'd definitely get checked for STDs and that's only because I ended up with one. You haven't said if you have children but either way I would take my time before filing for divorce. Feelings change maybe not overnight but counseling would definitely be wise. Personally the IRA cash out would make me want to kick him out but that's just me. You're the only one who can decide which way to go. Wishing you some peaceful thoughts and if you can read only one book, try Frank Pittman's Private Lies. It really did help me keep sane.

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    2. Oh V, I'm so so sorry for all you're going through. I remember so well that feeling of total shock. How in the hell did this become my life???
      You're likely in shock. Actual, clinical shock. Give yourself some time to just catch your breath. Take Gravel to sleep, if necessary. Try and eat something. I think a separation is smart to give you space to really figure out what's next. It sounds as if you've got a good handle on the finances so you can determine what your next step might be re. divorce.
      And divorce might well be the smartest thing you can do. But that option will still exist even if you give yourself some time to get your head clear. I think you have enough to cope with at the moment.

      Delete
    3. Ladies, thank you so much. Yes, Pilot's Wife, we have a 4 year old daughter that we're both crazy about. Yes, I am insane right now. I'm ashamed to admit this, but on Sunday I took my husband downstairs in our laundry room and I beat the shit out of him. I've NEVER done anything such as this before. I'm currently reading one of the books recommended on this site (and I do intend to read "Private Lies", and I'm listening to everything you ladies say and hanging on every word right now) and in the book one of the women, in referencing her "crazy" said "it's not that I can't make a decision, I can't stop making them". This is how I feel right now - "get out, no stay, get out, no don't". In some ways, a separation would be more difficult for me because at the moment, my husband is doing all the day to day bullshit - make food, co-manage our daughter, all things I would be doing 100% and I'm just so wiped out. With him not here, I'm more responsible. Two nights ago he slept in his car. The last two nights he's slept in our daughter's room. And my poor baby, caught in the middle of a ridiculous situation. The $20,000 was a payout, as she was intent on keeping the baby. She sounds like a pretty enlightened yogi, huh? I have a career that I love, but everything is hard for me. I'm thinking about taking a leave of absence, but I'm self employed, so we know what looks like. I thank you so much, to all of you. This site has been a blessing for me in a time where I've had no where to turn. I finally just the other day told my mom everything. She is truly my best friend and that I've kept this under wraps for as long as I have is really quite something. However, as we seem to never reach the bottom of the bullshit, I just couldn't take this on alone anymore. Thank you for everything. You're providing quite the service and to be of service is such a high form of living. With love.

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    4. V,
      I'm so glad your mom knows and that she's able to provide you with some support. My mother was my lifeline when I was in the midst of all this.
      If you love your career, see if you can find a way to step into it, almost like another room where there's none of the emotional insanity. I too am self-employed and was able to scale back my work (also contracted out a few bits and pieces in the days following D-Day because I couldn't sleep/think). But hang on to any pieces of it that give you something of a distraction and room to breathe. That ability to shift into work mode can also be a concrete reminder that you are more than a betrayed wife.
      Hang in there, V. So glad the site has been helpful. And so glad you found us.

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  72. V, I am so very sorry! It is overwhelming to wake up one day and find that you are and have been living with a complete stranger. My heart breaks for you and for the emptiness that you probably feel. But, we are here for you. Be strong, take time to decide if you can allow this man to be in your life after what he has done. Be selfish, do as much for yourself as possible. Stay positive and do what you need to do for yourself to get to the other side of this ~~~ and know, no matter which way you decide to go,you will get to the other side.

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  73. It's almost been a year since I found out and this month is proving very difficult. All I keep thinking is this time last year I was fine, my world hadn't fallen apart yet. The pain is still very real and I'm still so so angry. I feel like I'm just waiting for something awful to happen to the other woman, I just want her to feel pain and suffer. I hate how angry and bitter this has made me. My partner and I do have good days now and I feel a bit more loving to him again but there are moments when the thoughts take over my mind and I feel like I'm never going to get over it.

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  74. Part 1. I really need to share my story somewhere I feel isolated and not able to talk to anyone about what happened. I hope this helps. I found out on February 22nd that my fiancé was having an affair. We have been together for 9 years. We were supposed to be married this coming May. We own a business together, and are very visible in the community that we live in. He always works very hard and we hide the affair by saying he was travelling for work, having business meetings. He met her though our business, on a photography project. She is 9 years younger than me. She is a very pretty girl.To make matters worse she does a lot of modeling and is very active on social media. She is always posting photos of herself, edited beautifully, people comment that she is flawless and gorgeous beyond comprehension. She is often in very seducing poses, its torture. I know I am obsessing over her. I check her Instagram, I look for her on modelling sites, tumblr, anywhere I can find her. She makes me feel so ugly.I am always comparing myself to her, how much more beautiful she is than me. He tells me to stop doing this, he’s right, but I can’t help it. He says “be happy with yourself, you’re a pretty girl” and I can’t help but think, why couldn’t he be happy with me? If I am good enough shouldn’t I have been able to keep him interested, keep his eyes from wandering. He says he chose me. That they can’t be together because they are too similar, it wouldn’t work. When they were together, before I knew I was so lonely. He was never home, I thought he was working and felt bad for the long hours he was always putting in. He started to act weird on feb 14. He was very distant, he tried to end our relationship, saying that we had grown too far apart and that he had a hard time talking to me.She always sent him photos of her.One time he accidently send me a text he meant to send her. He said “you’re so gorgeous, wow”. He never says things like that to me. We don’t talk much during the days, he is “busy”. I found out that he was spending his days texting her instead of me.

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  75. Part 2. I’ve caught him lying to me since then. I don’t trust him and I know it’s bad, he ALWAYS has his phone attached to him, he never puts it down. On a couple occasions he has left it plugged in or in the car (completely by accident) and I’ve found texts on his phone from her.They still talk, even though she knows he told me. I’ve asked him if he still talks to her and he says they don’t. I don’t know what to do, if I confront him about finding the texts on his phone then he will know that I went looking for him and he will NEVER leave his phone unattended.This is currently my only way to keep tabs on what is truly going on because I can’t trust him.I tried to sit and talk to him about it after I found the last texts. They talked about going for coffee and he was wondering how she was doing. He told her he looks at her tumblr because he likes her photos and some writing she had put up. I felt sick so I tried to bring it up to him without admitting I snooped on his phone. I said I was feeling “anxious” and wanted to know if he has seen or talked to her lately because he was acting a bit distant (which he was). He completely lied and said they don’t speak.I checked his phone the next day and ALL of the texts were deleted. I’ve checked his phone since and there is no texts from her, but I don’t trust that he isn’t still talking to her but deleting them immediately afterwards. Don’t get me wrong I think a part of him is worried that she will become angry and tell people,or that he is talking to her because he feels bad about hurting her as well. He has told me before he is protective of his phone because he is scared she might send him a text “out of the blue” and fears I will get upset. He knows I am terrified of people finding out. I am a very private person and am mortified about the entire thing. Like I said before we are a very visible part of the community and the news will spread like wildfire if I tell anyone.I feel so isolated. More than anything though I feel very ugly and very inadequate. The hard thing for me is she is so much younger, and she has all these beautiful features that I do not. It’s made my insecurities so much worse. It also really hurts me that he never says any of the nice things he said to her to me. He will point out the features that I need to improve, or say things he doesn’t like about me. I just don’t know what to do. I have all this anxiety. Will it go away? I’ve been going to the gym and making sure to take care of myself as much as possible, but these feelings just aren’t getting any better.

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    Replies
    1. Sweetheart, this guy is poison. Run don't walk as far away from him as possible. He's cruel. He's dishonest. He's disloyal. NONE of this will get better with marriage. This should be the best time of your life, planning a wedding with something who wants NOTHING more than to be with you. Instead, he's telling another women she's gorgeous, treating YOU like a fixer upper, and lying about where he's been and what he's been doing.
      Please, please PLEASE dump this guy. You deserve so much better than this. I promise you the day will come when you'll be so grateful you held out for better than this. You deserve so much more than this. You ARE beautiful. You ARE enough. Don't ever let anyone make you feel as though you're not.

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    2. Anonymous
      The first thing to do is to talk to a lawyer about your business and your life circumstances , make sure you have all the ducks in a row to protect yourself because he sounds like my wife and if I had not protected myself financially she would have ripped me off blind
      I can understand how difficult it must be for you but so many experts that talk and write about unfaithfulness in marriage will say the more open it is the greater protection you will have , by keeping it secret it only provides him with more and more opportunities to be unfaithful to you . I was in the same situation at our church and within a few weeks after D Day I told a number of people at our church what she was doing and I also told her what I had done because she was swanning around church on Sundays showing everyone what a good christian mother she was and then through the week committing adultery several times a week then back to church the next Sunday as if she was doing nothing wrong . Now I take our daughter to church and I have got a lot of good support from a number of people , she hasn't been near a church since her affair ended . I also was dealing with my wife's lover who was 16 years younger than me and she told me a hundred times how he was so much more exciting that I ever was
      I know I haven't yet but get him out of your life , your health and well being is so much more important to you that any concerns you might have about what others might think . I know it will be hard for you and It took me quite a while to realize " if nothing changes , nothing changes " You need to make a stand and take back your life , you owe it to yourself to be as happy as you can be

      Alan

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  76. Anonymous,

    PLEASE listen to this wise counsel From Elle and Alan. Build a wall around yourself (GET LEGAL COUNSEL AND PROTECT YOURSELF) become your own best friend and agent (YOU ARE ENOUGH) please understand we all do this! The judging and comparing in our heads 24/7 - unless we challenge those thoughts with compassion and sometimes a rubber band on the wrist! used to "STOP" the obsessing (its normal, its normal)...watch the Disney kid movie MALEFICENT because it's about getting your WINGS BACK. (I watched that over and over and said THAT'S me!)

    Take your power back from BOTH of them. Get support somehow, seek counseling, writing here, you have this amazing force behind you.......

    And your man sounds like the SELFISH prince/king and it's never enough and never will be unless he's willing to get honest and look inward and think about others...

    I am an old woman long married and will tell you the truth

    WHAT YOU SEE IS WHAT YOU GET

    Elle's right "Run" for the Hills.....become a stealth-warrior and fight for your OWN life.

    Valkyrie

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  77. Elle (and every woman & man rocking this website) Jane from Chicago here as ranting valkyrie

    I understand that attitude determines altitude

    But I just had my D-Day anniversary which falls on May 10th "Mothers Day," weekend

    I'm still "Stuck"

    Or rather, I'm disappointed and amazed that with all the rewarding work we've accomplished as a couple..

    My hatred for my husbands OW LT- mistress has only increased overtime and not diminished. (as the pieces of our marital puzzle are gathered and fall into place)

    My husband is standing remorseful (and now for the first time genuine and authentic. (oh what a rocket ride)

    His mistress on the other hand evades, lies, and remains ever the malicious coward (still holed up - although exiled to another office. In my husbands medical practice).

    I can't find the right words to explain how this makes me feel...

    impotent?

    A sense of outrage and injustice?

    No closure.

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  78. part 2

    I feel betrayed by my husband but worse the community around him/me who watched and did nothing....

    (So when I hear others talk about their OW living 'across the street,' next door, at work or closely lurking....and Especially in our ravaged hearts.....I feel a steady burning anger....

    I want to expose her because she's shameless and because she wants to run away and not be accountable to the world of pain she brought onto others (including her own family)

    It's okay because I'm respecting my process (my hillbilly dignity) outrage and pain.

    I'm moving forward understanding that attitude does affect altitude and height of my flight. I don't want my children visiting me behind bars wearing and orange jump suit (I'd look awful). And I'm not one to start fights but will finish them

    The following is one of the texts we received....

    "Dear Jane,

    Guess what happened in your perfect little house while you and your daughters were away?

    The raging narcissist if you don't tell her the truth. I can do it for you."

    V



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    Replies
    1. Valkyrie/Jane,
      That sense of impotence can destroy you. I know how unfair it is. And to be constantly aware of her shadowy presence is hell. If it's your husband's practice, why can't she be let go? It cost us a small fortune but we essentially paid off my husband's OW, got her to sign something and, after three months, poof. She was gone. Hallelujah for that.
      And who sent you the text? I'm confused by that. Someone else who wants to expose her?
      V, you need some outlet for your anger (which masks, of course, your hurt and fear). But I'm glad you recognize that orange is NOT the new black for you. Nobody is worth that!
      What often convinced me to take the high road was my children -- knowing that how I conducted myself was a reflection of who I wanted to be for them. I wanted to be better than that. If I expected them to walk away from people who hurt them, then I needed to model that behaviour. Incredibly hard. But it might help you to imagine just how shitty it must feel to BE that OW. There must be whispers. She must know, on some level, that she was deceitful and cruel and self-centred. Would YOU want to be that person? I sure as hell wouldn't.

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